In this episode of Kaleidoscope, Ruby Rae Liu is joined by Kim Lithgow, a South African LGBTQIA+ activist and founder of Same Love Toti, alongside co-host Luigi, for a grounded conversation about marriage equality, LGBTQ rights, and the ongoing fight for civil rights.

Together, they explore the historical and legal context of marriage as a civil rights issue for gay and lesbian communities, reflecting on how progress has been made — and how easily it can be challenged or reversed. Luigi’s questions help unpack complex ideas around hate speech, homophobia, and the gap between having strong laws on paper and seeing them meaningfully applied in real life.

Kim shares her personal journey of coming out later in life, her work supporting families, and her advocacy against hate crimes. She also discusses her role in pushing for systemic change at both national and international levels, highlighting how LGBTQ rights are protected not only through legislation, but through education, visibility, and sustained community effort.

Throughout the episode, the speakers reflect on acceptance, resilience, and the responsibility to keep speaking out — emphasizing that equality is not a one-time victory, but an ongoing process shaped by collective action.

Links & Where to Find Us

Find Same Love Toti on Facebook and Instagram: @samelovetoti

To donate to SameLoveToti, please reach out to Kaleidoscope at echo@echoemner.co.uk for bank transfer details to be sent directly to their account. You can also contact Kim Lithgow on her socials.

Listen to Kaleidoscope wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube: @echoperspectives Find more of Ruby Rae on Instagram: @firefromheat and on YouTube: @RubyRaeD

Want to be a guest on Kaleidoscope? Send us an email: echo@echoember.co.uk

🧠 Key Conversations & Moments

✨ Warm-up & Humanity

• Painting figurines, hobbies never tried, and creative outlets later in life
• Mug collections, family rituals, and small acts of sentimentality
• Creativity as survival, not indulgence

🧱 Resilience & Choice

• Being pushed into careers and identities by circumstance
• People-pleasing, parental approval, and delayed self-realisation
• The difference between doing what you want and doing what you’re allowed to

🌈 Kim’s Story & Same Love Toti

• Coming out later in life after a heterosexual marriage
• Parental rejection and its ripple effects
• Why Same Love Toti began with families, not just queer youth
• Supporting parents through fear, misinformation, and shock

⚖️ Hate Speech & Hate Crime (South Africa)

• How hate speech is legally defined
• Why offensiveness ≠ criminal hate speech
• Real-world consequences: incitement, mob violence, assaults
• The importance of legislation for data, accountability, and prevention
• Why application, not law, is South Africa’s biggest challenge

🏛️ Advocacy at Scale

• From school talks → Department of Education → national policy
• How LGBT voices were erased from G20 civil society drafts
• The creation of Q20 (Queer20) as a permanent working group
• Why making history matters even when governments resist it