John Gabbert built a massive furniture brand. But in order to do it, he had to defy his family.

John grew up working at his dad’s furniture store in the suburbs of Minneapolis. It sold classic, American-made furniture, with flowery prints and curved legs. But in 1972, John took a life-changing trip to Sweden, where he discovered an obscure store called IKEA. It was selling an entirely different type of furniture: simple, modern, and inexpensive, with a manufacturing process they controlled. To John, it looked like the future of furniture. The only problem, his dad didn’t agree.

That disagreement led to a 10-year family rift—but also a new business.

In 1980—zafter a deal to buy out his dad broke down—John spun out his own furniture brand, Room & Board. Today, it sells hundreds of millions of dollars of furniture in its own classic designs, mostly made by small American manufacturers.

This is the story of how John did it, without outside investors, and without chasing growth for growth’s sake.

What You’ll Learn

Why the right thing for your business might be the hardest thing for your family

How John connected with young boomers—not their parents

The key to long-term success: growing slow and saying “no”

Why John refused private equity money

Why Room & Board transitioned to employee ownership

Timestamps:

00:03:45 - Gabberts: flowery furniture in a fake living room

00:07:16 - Becoming president of the family business at age 23

00:11:08 - A fateful trip to IKEA in Sweden: “That's what the future needed to be”

00:16:11 - John tries to buy out the family business… until his dad backs out

00:31:07 - Design inspiration from modern art—and steel frames

00:40:28 - Why making furniture in America makes sense

00:49:17 - Investors come to call… and John says no

00:55:38 - The decision that transferred ownership to employees

This episode was produced by Chris Maccini with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Rommel Wood. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Kwesi Lee.

Follow How I Built This:

Instagram → @howibuiltthis

X → @HowIBuiltThis

Facebook → How I Built This

Follow Guy Raz:

Instagram → @guy.raz

Youtube → guy_raz

X → @guyraz

Substack → guyraz.substack.com

Website → guyraz.com

Today’s callers: Anthony from Miami considers the best method to grow his pop-up outdoor movie theater business. Then Andrew in San Francisco asks how to set his cat wrestling toy apart from competitors. Finally, Melissa in Massachusetts seeks strategies for getting busy parents excited about her healthy frozen muffins.

Plus, Jonah shares what’s next for Buzzfeed as the company marks 20 years of business.

Thank you to the founders of Motion Flix, CATSUMO, and Unrefined Foods for joining us on the show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to Buzzfeed’s founding story as told by Jonah on the show in 2017.

This episode was produced by Katherine Sypher with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Casey Herman. Our audio engineer was Kwesi Lee.

You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.

Gregg Renfrew started a movement by making better-for-you cosmetics, then enlisted an army of women to build the business through direct sales. But after selling Beautycounter, she was pushed out of the company she created.

Then she got to do something almost no founder gets to do:

She bought her company back. Then lost it again. Then took the risky step of rebuilding it into a new brand, now called Counter.

This is a story about ambition, humility, and second chances.

Gregg learned her first lessons by launching an early online wedding registry and selling it to Martha Stewart. She briefly led a clothing company and was summarily fired—by messenger.

In this candid conversation, Gregg talks about the bold innovation she brought to the beauty industry, and the lessons she learned from working with difficult people—including, at times, herself.

What You’ll Learn:

How to build a movement—not just a product

The hidden risks of “growth at all costs”

Why direct sales (done right) can outperform traditional DTC

The emotional toll of being fired from your own company

How to rebuild your identity after losing your business

What it takes to come back—and do it differently the second time

Timestamps:

(00:06:15) – Selling Xerox machines and getting doors slammed in her face

(00:08:09) – The early inspiration for an online wedding registry.

(00:16:44) – The brutal lesson of the dot-com crash: “growth at all costs”

(00:21:58) – Standing up to Martha Stewart: “I was cocky.”

(00:23:51) – Getting fired as CEO… by messenger… in front of her team

(00:32:47) – The moment she realized the beauty industry had a massive gap

(00:35:25) – “Clean beauty didn’t exist”—and why that made it so hard

(00:47:04) – Building a 60,000-person sales force, scaling to hundreds of millions in sales

(00:46:40) – Selling Beautycounter for $1B… and losing control months later

(01:00:13) – The emotional aftermath of being pushed out—and what came next

This episode was produced by John Isabella with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Noor Gill. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Jimmy Keeley.

Follow How I Built This:

Instagram → @howibuiltthis

X → @HowIBuiltThis

Facebook → How I Built This

Follow Guy Raz:

Instagram → @guy.raz

Youtube → guy_raz

X → @guyraz

Substack → guyraz.substack.com

Website → guyraz.com

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.