In this episode of the HRchat Podcast, host Bill Banham is joined by Perry Timms, author of Transformational HR and founder of PTHR, to explore how HR leaders can design for constant change rather than react to it.

Together, they unpack Perry’s updated HR operating model — one built on product thinking, systems design, and behavioural science. You’ll hear how HR teams can treat services as evolving products, hire for learning speed, and design employee experiences that adapt without burning people out.

The conversation spans real-world adoption stories from charities, construction, and hospitality, showing how different sectors interpret the same principles to fit their realities. Perry also introduces the idea of the polymorphic organisation — many forms working in sync — balancing governance where it’s needed with fluid networks where innovation thrives.

Looking ahead to 2026, we tackle the AI question head-on. Instead of chasing shaky ROI promises, Perry proposes a sharper metric: return on usefulness. Measure time returned to people, clarity of decisions, speed of work, and the quality of human conversations that actually move the needle.

We close with a leadership challenge: become incubators. Create the conditions for safe experiments, rapid learning, and scalable success.

If you care about resilient teams, smarter HR design, and making technology serve people — not the other way around — this episode is for you.

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