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GrowthBusters

GrowthBusters

By: Dave Gardner and Stephanie Gardner on sustainability
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 Humankind has outgrown the planet, so we explore ways to recover from growth addiction. We dig into the more fascinating and hard-hitting aspects of public policy and the joy of living sustainably. It’s all about ending our culture’s love affair with “more,” which is not making us happier and is killing our planet. No half-hearted greenwashing here; we share the brutal and joyful truth! Co-host Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared “could be the most important film ever made.” Learn more about the film at www.growthbustersmovie.org. Co-host Stephanie Gardner earned a masters degree in environmental law and policy, and has expertise and experience in sustainable energy.All rights reserved Science Social Sciences
Episodes
  • 93: Ezra Klein’s Abundance Delusion

    93: Ezra Klein’s Abundance Delusion
    Aug 29 2025
    Just say “NO.” Some approaches to “abundance” are healthy, but one brand of abundance that’s been capturing the cultural moment lately is a recipe for a dead planet. Dave and Stephanie assess key points made by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson in their book, Abundance. The result, a sound thrashing. The authors believe “America needs to build and invent more of the things it needs.” They advocate eliminating regulatory barriers that are keeping us from getting more, faster. Conservation and environmental stewardship are not on the agenda. Klein is a columnist for The New York Times and host of The Ezra Klein Show. Derek is a writer at The Atlantic and host of the Plain English podcast. They lean left, so many are suggesting the Democratic party should adopt “the abundance agenda” as it remakes itself in the wake of 2024 electoral defeat. In this episode, we make the case against that. We’re not alone. Among the links we provide below are some additional thoughtful and articulate critiques of the book and agenda. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Economic Wisdom from the Natural World: The Serviceberry – episode 92 of the GrowthBusters podcasthttps://www.growthbusters.org/serviceberry/ Abundance – by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompsonhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/176444106-abundance The Elite’s Fixation with Low Birth Rates – Overshoot podcast episode with Samuel Miller McDonaldhttps://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/samuel-miller-mcdonald An Abundance of Concrete – by Ben Goldfarbhttps://defector.com/an-abundance-of-concrete Colorado Matters episode with Ben Goldfarbhttps://www.cpr.org/2025/06/27/interview-ben-goldfarb-state-of-conservation/ Bezos: We’re Going to Need Another Planet – episode 89 of the GrowthBusters podcasthttps://www.growthbusters.org/bezos-need-another-planet/ On Abundance - by The Last Farmhttps://www.resilience.org/stories/2025-07-16/on-abundance (Note: a good critique of “abundance” but a narrow solution. It’s a good part of the solution, but not complete.) Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society’s growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture’s obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared “could be the most important film ever made.” Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
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    41 mins
  • 92: Economic Wisdom from the Natural World – The Serviceberry

    92: Economic Wisdom from the Natural World – The Serviceberry
    Aug 5 2025
    In this trial run for the “GrowthBusters Book Club,” we discuss The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World - by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Cannibal economies, gift economies, reciprocity, and doughnut economics all come up. Sally Gillespie in her Substack column, Psyche’s Nest wrote this about Kimmerer’s book: “As disruptions and destructions reach our communities in all manner of ways, acts of kindness and generosity are already challenging modernity’s stories of ‘never enough’ and ‘you’re on your own’. Often led by those on the margins, we are remembering how to pool resources and gather for action and care as we tend to losses, connections, breakthroughs, emergencies and emergence. It seems to me that no one word is sufficient to describe this devolving and evolving process we are now in. What we need more than a word or a phrase are stories bearing ancient roots and seeds of possibility for the future.” We also talk briefly about President Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” beautifully illustrating how policymakers – cheered on by Jeff Bezos – frequently rely on the crutch of economic growth rather than a sharp pencil in balancing the budget. The increased tax revenue never ends up covering costs – because costs skyrocket, too, in a growing economy. The hard budget-balancing work is looking at the detail, doing the math, ferreting out REAL waste, and setting and following priorities. Interestingly, Robin Wall Kimmerer wrote about this phenomenon: “An economy based on the impossibility of ever-expanding growth leads us into nightmare scenarios. I cringe when I hear economic reports celebrating the accelerating pace of economic growth, as if that were a good thing. It might be good for the Darrens, for the short term, but it is a dead end for others – it is an engine of extinction.” Also, a note about how “record Memorial Day travel” also means record carbon emissions. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Beyond collapse: Carrying Stories of Care – by Sallie Gillespie in Psyche’s Nest on Substack: https://sallygillespie.substack.com/p/beyond-collapse-carrying-stories The Serviceberry: An Economy of Abundance - by Robin Wall KimmererOriginal essay in Emergence Magazine: https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/the-serviceberry/ A Resolution for 2021: Be a Better Ancestor (review of The Good Ancestor): https://grist.org/climate/a-resolution-for-2021-be-a-better-ancestor/ The Good Ancestor: Following the Intergenerational Golden Rule – episode 54 of the GrowthBusters podcast featuring philosopher Roman Krznarik, author of The Good Ancestor: A Radical Prescription for Long-Term Thinking: https://www.growthbusters.org/good-ancestor/ What Doughnut Economics Can Learn From History – Roman Krznaric & Kate Raworth: https://youtu.be/FfUOs4ZJ1wM?si=dAIJjeYBUt6Amr3C Flipping Economics on Its Head: Kate Raworth – episode 219 of Conversation Earth: http://www.conversationearth.org/flipping-economics-head-kate-raworth-219/ Thriving Economy: Not Rocket Science – Kate Raworth – episode 220 of Conversation Earth: http://www.conversationearth.org/thriving-economy-not-rocket-science-kate-raworth-220/ Kate Raworth – Exploring Doughnut Economics: https://www.kateraworth.com/ Doughnut Economics Action Lab: https://doughnuteconomics.org/ End of Ponzi Economy: Jerry Mander – episode 203 of Conversation Earth: http://www.conversationearth.org/end-ponzi-economy-jerry-mander-203/ Bright Future Project: https://brightfutureproject.us We’ve been unable to find Bob Banner’s essay, Why Relocalization? – A Return to the Local, so in its place: Relocalization: A Strategic Response to Climate Change and Peak Oil – by Jason Bradford (2007, but still very relevant and informative): http://theoildrum.com/node/2598 Sustainability: Radical Solutions Inspiring Hope – edited by Bob Banner: https://www.amazon.com/Sustainability-Radical-Solutions-Inspiring-Hope/dp/0980230802 Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society’s growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture’s obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared “could be the most important film ever made.” Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://...
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    44 mins
  • 91: Growth Addiction and Water in the American Southwest – with Gary Wockner

    91: Growth Addiction and Water in the American Southwest – with Gary Wockner
    Jun 30 2025
    Prolific river protector Gary Wockner gives us the straight scoop on the state of the Colorado River (and others), and the growth obsession that keeps southwest states and cities from responding rationally to increasingly scarce water resources. TODAY, nearly half the world’s population experiences severe water shortages at least part of the year. So far, fresh water issues in the American Southwest amount – mostly - to first world problems – like “I can’t water my lawn whenever I want,” “it’s hard to keep the golf course lush and green with less water,” or “How can I develop my next residential project if there’s no water?” But the future could be grim, if we can’t get the cities and states into a 12-step program to break the growth addiction habit. Our guest, Gary Wockner, works globally as an advocate and consultant for protection of rivers. He founded and directs: Save the ColoradoSave the PoudreColorado River chapter of CASSE He also cofounded Tell the Dam Truth, a nonprofit that supports river-protection groups by engaging with federal and state agencies to make sure that the greenhouse gas emissions caused by dams and reservoirs are counted, reported, and then considered during policy making, rulemaking, and legislation. He most recently led opposition to the Northern Integrated Supply Project. He filed a lawsuit to stop it, and recently settled the suit. He shares about the settlement in this episode. Gary is also author of numerous books, including: River Warrior: Fighting to Protect the World’s RiversComeback WolvesPulse of the River LINKS: News stories, opinion pieces, books and more related to Gary Wockner’s work: https://garywockner.com/all-garys-writing-advocacy/ Disaster Capitalism on the Colorado River - Column by Gary Wockner: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/03/27/colorado-river-drought-destruction-interior-moonshot-disaster-capitalism-column/80468488/ Save the Colorado: https://savethecolorado.org/ Save the Poudre: https://www.savethepoudre.org/ Tell the Dam Truth: https://tellthedamtruth.com/ Colorado River Chapter of CASSE (Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy): https://steadystate.org/meet/chapters/ Colorado River Basin Climate and Hydrology: State of the Science: https://wwa.colorado.edu/resources/colorado-river-resources/CRBreport Colorado River States Still Have No Unified Long-Term Management Plan and ‘Are Just About Out of Time,’ Experts Warn – May 31, 2025 Denver Post story: https://www.denverpost.com/2025/05/31/colorado-river-negotiations-2026-deadline/ Water Supply Uncertainty Could Slow Growth in Colorado Springs – May 2024 news story KRDO13 Colorado Springs: https://youtu.be/rvGGqZHwHdM?si=bimFT2BSWlCq_c5C Officials Fear 'Complete Doomsday Scenario' for Drought-Stricken Colorado River - The Washington Post, December 1, 2022: https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-fear-complete-doomsday-scenario-202316932.html?guccounter=1 Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society’s growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture’s obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared “could be the most important film ever made.” Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr
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