This episode features a long-awaited conversation between host Michael and guest Paul Nadeau, a former hostage negotiator, international peacekeeper, and detective Michael expressed his thanks that they finally connected, and both men gave a shout-out to their colleague and friend, King.

The interview was recorded at the end of October 2025 and delves into Paul's intriguing and impactful 32-year career, 20 of which were spent working in major crimes.

The Journey into Law Enforcement and Negotiation

Paul explained that his path to becoming a policeman was set at a young age. After suffering abuse from his father, he promised himself at age seven, "When I grow up, I'm going to be a policeman so I can arrest you". Later, his father took his own life with the same rifle he had used years earlier to kill "Santa Claus".

Paul began working at ages 13 or 14 to pay room and board, which unknowingly taught him negotiation skills and an ability to communicate with adults and read people. After his father died, Paul joined a suicide hotline in Oshawa, Ontario, where he was trained for months and spent hours listening to suicidal people, preparing him for a police career.

Paul shared the pivotal moment that demonstrated his natural negotiation ability: a 911 call where he was the first responder to a man attempting suicide. The man had a noose around his neck, a bottle of Jack Daniels, and a box cutter. Though Paul was not yet a hostage negotiator, he began talking to the man as he would have on the suicide line. About 40 minutes later, Paul talked the man off the chair, realizing he had a special talent. This experience later encouraged him to apply for and pass the tests to become an RCMP-approved hostage negotiator.

Paul noted that the events he suffered when he was younger actually happened for him, and he encouraged listeners to consider how past trauma may have shaped them into who they are today, urging them to "let go of the pain".

The Hostage Effect

The conversation turned to Paul's latest book, The Hostage Effect. Paul posits that a huge part of the world is currently suffering from this condition, which he describes as a "psychological virus".

• Definition: The Hostage Effect occurs when people feel like hostages without the use of bars, cells, or chains, due to uncertainty, fear, and manipulation.
• Causes: This feeling stems from current global issues, including wars, governments eroding democracies, and daily announcements that threaten citizens' lives. Paul cited examples of governments attempting to pass bills that threaten privacy and free expression, leading to widespread anxiety and fear. He noted that when he was in the Middle East, he saw an entire country held hostage through this fear and manipulation.
• The Book as a Guide: Paul emphasized that The Hostage Effect is a blueprint and call to action that offers awareness and steps to take control of one's mental wellness. It serves as a guide for people to retain their autonomy and agency.

Michael praised the book, calling it a "gamechanger" that provides renewed awareness, hope, and "quite frankly permission to take back control of your life".

Core Lessons Learned

Paul shared two valuable lessons he learned throughout his career that listeners can immediately use in their lives.

1. We are more similar than we are different: Paul noted that regardless of skin color, preferences, or religion, "We all laugh, love, and bleed in the same way". This realization allows individuals to imagine what it's like to be in another person's shoes, fostering compassion and effective communication. Paul used this approach in units like sexual assault and child abuse, understanding that if he were the victim, he would want a compassionate officer to approach him.
2. You get what you give: If you approach others with dignity, respect, passion, and understanding, you are likely to receive the same in return. Paul provided powerful examples of this lesson in action: a terrorist saved his life because of how he had treated him in the Middle East, and criminals came to his defense when he was being beaten because of ways he had treated them in the past.

Paul stressed the importance of focusing on the things we can control, citing Victor Frankl, who said that everything can be taken away but "our power to choose our responses to the situations that we're in".

Listeners interested in finding out more about Paul's work or his book can run his name through the internet or AI.