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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Dr. Will Percy, Executive Vice President at TeamOptix and author of Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement, about why so many engagement efforts feel busy but ineffective.

Will introduces the idea of “engagement zombies” the outdated beliefs, metrics, and programs that continue to walk around organizations long after they have stopped helping anyone. We explore why happiness and engagement are not the same thing, how toxicity often hides inside “high-performing” cultures, and why leadership behavior, not perks or surveys, ultimately shapes the employee experience.

The conversation digs into how chaos, unclear expectations, and tolerance of the wrong behaviors quietly drain teams, especially in creative and professional service environments. Will also shares how data can be used as a coaching tool rather than a weapon, and what collective leadership actually looks like when it is done well.

This episode is a practical look at how leaders can move beyond surface-level engagement efforts and create environments where people can do their best work without burning out or checking out.

We cover:

• Why happiness is not the same as engagement
• What workplace toxicity looks like beyond extreme examples
• How chaos and lack of clarity become cultural toxins
• Why promotions and tolerance reveal true leadership values
• Using data to support growth instead of surveillance
• What collective leadership looks like in practice

Resources mentioned:

• The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters
• Zombie Economics: The Dead Ideas Still Walk Among Us by John Quiggin
• Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement

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