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Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh Podcast

By: Dwarkesh Patel
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Deeply researched interviews

www.dwarkesh.comDwarkesh Patel
Science
Episodes
  • Ilya Sutskever – The age of scaling is over
    Nov 25 2025

    Ilya & I discuss SSI’s strategy, the problems with pre-training, how to improve the generalization of AI models, and how to ensure AGI goes well.

    Watch on YouTube; read the transcript.

    Sponsors

    * Gemini 3 is the first model I’ve used that can find connections I haven’t anticipated. I recently wrote a blog post on RL’s information efficiency, and Gemini 3 helped me think it all through. It also generated the relevant charts and ran toy ML experiments for me with zero bugs. Try Gemini 3 today at gemini.google

    * Labelbox helped me create a tool to transcribe our episodes! I’ve struggled with transcription in the past because I don’t just want verbatim transcripts, I want transcripts reworded to read like essays. Labelbox helped me generate the exact data I needed for this. If you want to learn how Labelbox can help you (or if you want to try out the transcriber tool yourself), go to labelbox.com/dwarkesh

    * Sardine is an AI risk management platform that brings together thousands of device, behavior, and identity signals to help you assess a user’s risk of fraud & abuse. Sardine also offers a suite of agents to automate investigations so that as fraudsters use AI to scale their attacks, you can use AI to scale your defenses. Learn more at sardine.ai/dwarkesh

    To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/advertise.

    Timestamps

    (00:00:00) – Explaining model jaggedness

    (00:09:39) - Emotions and value functions

    (00:18:49) – What are we scaling?

    (00:25:13) – Why humans generalize better than models

    (00:35:45) – SSI’s plan to straight-shot superintelligence

    (00:46:47) – SSI’s model will learn from deployment

    (00:55:07) – How to think about powerful AGIs

    (01:18:13) – “We are squarely an age of research company”

    (01:30:26) – Self-play and multi-agent

    (01:32:42) – Research taste



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    1 hr and 36 mins
  • Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI
    Nov 12 2025

    As part of this interview, Satya Nadella gave Dylan Patel (founder of SemiAnalysis) and me an exclusive first-look at their brand-new Fairwater 2 datacenter.

    Microsoft is building multiple Fairwaters, each of which has hundreds of thousands of GB200s & GB300s. Between all these interconnected buildings, they’ll have over 2 GW of total capacity. Just to give a frame of reference, even a single one of these Fairwater buildings is more powerful than any other AI datacenter that currently exists.

    Satya then answered a bunch of questions about how Microsoft is preparing for AGI across all layers of the stack.

    Watch on YouTube; read the transcript.

    Sponsors

    * Labelbox produces high-quality data at massive scale, powering any capability you want your model to have. Whether you’re building a voice agent, a coding assistant, or a robotics model, Labelbox gets you the exact data you need, fast. Reach out at labelbox.com/dwarkesh

    * CodeRabbit automatically reviews and summarizes PRs so you can understand changes and catch bugs in half the time. This is helpful whether you’re coding solo, collaborating with agents, or leading a full team. To learn how CodeRabbit integrates directly into your workflow, go to coderabbit.ai

    To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/advertise.

    Timestamps

    (00:00:00) - Tour through Fairwater 2

    (00:03:20) - Business models for AGI

    (00:12:48) - Copilot

    (00:20:02) - Whose margins will expand most?

    (00:36:17) - MAI

    (00:47:47) - The hyperscale business

    (01:02:44) - In-house chip & OpenAI partnership

    (01:09:35) - The CAPEX explosion

    (01:15:07) - Will the world trust US companies to lead AI?



    Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe
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    1 hr and 28 mins
  • Sarah Paine – How Russia sabotaged China's rise
    Oct 31 2025

    In this lecture, military historian Sarah Paine explains how Russia—and specifically Stalin—completely derailed China’s rise, slowing them down for over a century.

    This lecture was particularly interesting to me because, in my opinion, the Chinese Civil War is 1 of the top 3 most important events of the 20th century. And to understand why it transpired as it did, you need to understand Stalin’s role in the whole thing.

    Watch on YouTube; read the transcript.

    Sponsors

    Mercury helps you run your business better. It’s the banking platform we use for the podcast — we love that we can see our cash balance, AR, and AP all in one place. Join us (and over 200,000 other entrepreneurs) at mercury.com

    Labelbox scrutinizes public benchmarks at the single data-row level to probe what’s really being evaluated. Using this knowledge, they can generate custom training data for hill climbing existing benchmarks, or design new benchmarks from scratch. Learn more at labelbox.com/dwarkesh

    To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/advertise.

    Timestamps

    (00:00:00) – How Russia took advantage of China’s weakness

    (00:22:58) – After Stalin, China’s rise

    (00:33:52) – Russian imperialism

    (00:45:23) – China’s and Russia’s existential problems

    (01:04:55) – Q&A: Sino-Soviet Split

    (01:22:44) – Stalin’s lessons from WW2



    Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 31 mins
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