In this episode, Josh and Drew tackle one of the most counterintuitive concepts in overcoming panic attacks: learning how to panic better, rather than trying to avoid panic altogether.

When facing a new job triggers familiar panic patterns, many people focus on preventing anxiety rather than developing a healthier relationship with it. Drew and Josh explore why "learning how to panic" is often the key to breaking free from panic disorder and agoraphobia.

Josh and Drew discuss the difference between panic attacks (the physical experience) and panic disorder (how we modify our lives to avoid those attacks). They challenge the common belief that panic attacks are disasters that must be prevented at all costs, instead suggesting that true recovery comes from accepting that panic might happen—and discovering that we can handle it.

• Why avoiding panic attacks keeps you stuck in the cycle
• The difference between learning "how to not panic" vs. "how to panic"
• Setting the right intention before challenging situations
• How catastrophic thinking creates unrealistic disaster scenarios
• The role of willful tolerance in anxiety recovery
• Addressing deeper fears about judgment and rejection at work

[03:45] - Josh and Drew introduce the concept: "This isn't about learning how to not panic. This is about getting better at panicking."

[11:30] - Drew challenges the core belief: "What would happen if I was wrong about that? What would happen if I'm wrong and I can actually handle having a panic attack at work?"

[18:30] - Josh on setting intentions: "I'm going to go and do this thing and see how well I can do whilst panicking."

[25:00] - Community win featuring someone who practiced "doing it anyway" during difficult existential thoughts

[30:10] - Success story: Concert attendance despite anxiety, demonstrating attention redirection techniques

[33:50] - Driving breakthrough story: Overcoming agoraphobia through gradual exposure and value-based action

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The Exposure Explained workshop Drew mentioned in the episode:

https://learn.theanxioustruth.com/exposure-explained

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

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Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

When you're struggling with anxiety disorders, you often do things that don't reflect who you really are - avoiding social gatherings, canceling plans, or making demands on loved ones that you normally wouldn't. As you start to recover, it's common to feel overwhelming guilt about how your anxiety affected the people around you.

In this episode, Drew and Josh explore the complex journey of self-forgiveness after anxiety recovery. They discuss why anxiety disorders can make people appear self-centered while emphasizing that the disorder isn't who you are as a person.

• Understanding that anxiety disorders are incredibly common and not your fault
• Why trying to achieve absolute certainty that you didn't hurt others keeps you stuck
• The difference between healthy regret and destructive self-criticism
• How to practice willful tolerance of difficult feelings like guilt and shame
• Why some people need to apologize while others don't - there's no universal approach
• Recognizing that feeling bad about past actions reflects your values, not your failures

[2:45] The Reality of Anxiety's Impact: Drew and Josh discuss how anxiety disorders make people do things against their nature and why this creates lasting guilt.

[6:50] You're Not Responsible for Having a Disorder: "We'd have to rent the city of Denver to fit all the people with panic disorder" - Drew explains why anxiety disorders are common medical conditions, not personal failures.

[12:15] The Impossible Standard: Why seeking absolute certainty that you never disappointed anyone is both unrealistic and counterproductive to healing.

[14:30] Drew's Personal Story: A vulnerable moment where Drew shares his ongoing regret about not visiting a dying friend, and why he doesn't want to "get over" this feeling completely.

[17:45] The Meta Problem: How the same tendency that creates anxiety disorders can turn against you when processing guilt about the past.

[27:40] Josh's Compassionate Reframe: "Would you rather be someone who doesn't feel bad when they act against their values?" - A powerful perspective on why guilt reflects your moral compass.

This episode offers practical wisdom for anyone struggling with self-forgiveness while maintaining the hosts' signature balance of professional expertise and lived experience. Drew and Josh remind us that healing often means learning to sit with difficult feelings rather than trying to eliminate them entirely.

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

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Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

When anxiety takes hold, one of the first casualties is our natural sense of wonder and openness to new experiences. In this episode of Disordered, lets explore how anxiety disorders systematically erode our curiosity about the world around us and our own capabilities.

Drew and Josh discuss how anxiety creates a rigid, self-focused mindset that asks only "How will this make me feel?" rather than "What might I discover?" They examine how this shift from external curiosity to internal fixation becomes a prison that keeps us stuck in patterns of avoidance and safety-seeking behaviors.

The hosts share practical strategies for rekindling curiosity as a pathway back to psychological flexibility, including:

• Asking "What would happen if..." instead of avoiding uncertainty
• Practicing willful tolerance while fostering genuine interest in experiences
• Using curiosity about the recovery process itself as a therapeutic tool
• Distinguishing between helpful curiosity and anxious rumination

Through inspiring listener stories, Drew and Josh demonstrate how curiosity can be gradually rebuilt, even during heightened anxiety states. They show how simple questions like "What just happened here?" and "What might I learn from this?" can begin to crack open the rigid thinking patterns that keep anxiety disorders alive.

This episode offers hope that the natural human capacity for wonder and exploration doesn't disappear with anxiety—it simply needs gentle cultivation and practice to flourish again.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.