"I think you have to pick your battles when you're collaborating with people." – Kim Krizan

Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin.

Notable Links:

• Kim Krizan on the philosophy of Before Sunrise (YouTube video)
• Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan (creative writing class)
• Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes)
• Before Sunrise (1995 movie)
• Ethan Hawke (American actor and director)
• Julie Delpy (French actress and director)
• Richard Linklater (American filmmaker)
• Slacker (1990 film)
• Dazed and Confused (1993 film)
• Anaïs Nin (French-American diarist and novelist)
• Reality Bites (1994 movie)
• Robin Wright (American actress)
• Lili Taylor (American actress)
• The Prater (public park in Vienna)
• Waking Life (2001 film)
• Forrest Mallard editing and marketing services
• Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay by Rolf Potts)

“I wish I loved sports, and particularly football, a lot less than I do. It consumes too much of my memory and too much of my time.” – Chuck Klosterman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he's talking to Chuck Klosterman's former roommate Michael Weinreb about Chuck's book Football, rather than Chuck himself (2:00); football-themed video games, and the difference between emotional and analytical sports fandom (7:00); Pico Iyer's appearance in the movie Marty Supreme, how podcasting has changed the landscape, and how streaming video has become the standard way to watch even high school football (17:00); why going to football games in person is a "pagan" experience of games that is completely different than watching them on TV, and how there's a travel parallel in experiencing distant places in person (24:00); how important the season and the weather is to the experience of football at both the experiential and metaphorical level (32:00); what might become of football, and why it persists as the object of fandom even by people who've never played it (39:00).

Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings; Bigger Than the Game; and Season of Saturdays. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture.

Notable Links:

• Kicking & Screaming might be the best movie ever (Deviate episode)
• Back to Penn State (2011 This American Life episode)
• Chuck Klosterman (author and essayist)
• Fargo Rock City, by Chuck Klosterman (2001 book)
• EA Sports College Football (video game)
• Super Bowl LV (game the Chiefs lost to the Buccaneers)
• Super Bowl LIX (game the Chiefs lost to the Eagles)
• A travel writers’ Super Bowl special (Deviate episode)
• Pico Iyer (travel writer and novelist)
• Marty Supreme (2025 sports comedy-drama film)
• Chick Hearn (Los Angeles Lakers announcer)
• Wesley Morris on Deviate
• Bill Simmons (American sportswriter and cultural critic)
• Football History Deep Dive (Bill Simmons Podcast episode)
• 2025 Kansas 1A football championship (high school game video)

“In teaching us to appreciate rather than accumulate – to seek awe rather than outcomes – travel can be an ongoing exercise in gratitude.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the All the Hacks podcast, with Chris Hutchins. They discuss the concept of “Time Wealth,” how it can be actualized through travel, and how it can dovetail with your family and life goals (2:00); what kinds of travel-oriented experiences and attitudes and rituals can help you frame and identify your values and life-goals (10:30); how kids can be a window into new places as a traveler, and why slowing down and "seeing less" helps you experience more on the road (27:00); the limitations of planning your travels around a "Bucket List," and the merits of taking a travel attitude to your home environment (35:30); how to pack when traveling light, and how to use technology wisely on the road (45:30).

Chris Hutchins (Instagram: @chrishutchins) is an avid optimizer and host of a top-ranked podcast, where he shares his quest to upgrade his life without having to spend a fortune.

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (books)
• Kevin Kelly (editor and futurist)
• Lyft (ride-hailing service)
• Die With Zero, by Bill Perkins (book)
• Carrefour (French convenience store)
• Zamalek (area of Cairo, Egypt)
• An Egyptian straight-razor shave in 21 easy steps (video)
• Jackfruit (food)
• Raclette (Swiss dish)
• Père Lachaise (cemetery in Paris)
• Frank Alamo (French singer)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's writing classes)
• Canton (town in Mississippi)
• Lindsborg, Kansas ("Little Sweden")
• Zacatecas (state in Mexico)
• No Baggage Challenge (Rolf's 2010 no-luggage trip)
• AirTreks (round-the-world and multi-stop flight planner)
• Flâneur (urban wanderer)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.