Denis Betts is a rugby league legend.

But behind the trophies and the Great Britain caps lies a story about ego, endings, and learning what really matters.

In this raw and revealing conversation, Denis and I dive into:

• Why he chose to let go of anger in his mid-twenties
• The clash of egos and the regret of stepping away too soon
• The role of family and the influence of strong women in his life
• What coaching Wigan Women has taught him about leadership
• Why joy and purpose matter more than medals

This is Denis Betts like you’ve never heard him before.

SHOW NOTES

The Making of a Legend

• Dennis’s rise at Wigan and Great Britain
• What success looked like in a golden era of rugby league

Family, Joy & Simplicity

• Why his happiest moments weren’t always on the pitch
• Grass, sun, family dinners — finding joy in the small things

Letting Go of Anger

• The moment he decided anger wasn’t serving him anymore
• Playing a violent sport without carrying violence inside

Ego, Endings & Regret

• The clashing egos that led to his retirement
• The regret of stepping away too soon
• Lessons from endings and identity beyond sport

Strong Women & Leadership

• Raising three daughters and how it shaped him
• Coaching Wigan Warriors Women
• What leadership really means when you adapt to the people in front of you

I first coached James Haskell when he was a teenager - he had big energy, big personality, and was full of potential. But beneath the surface, he was carrying self-doubt, pressure, and a deep need to prove himself.

In this episode, we sit down for a raw and honest conversation about what was really going on behind the image.

We talk about:

• The impact of being medicated from age 10 and surviving boarding school
• Why he spent years performing, without knowing who he really was
• What therapy helped him uncover about self-worth, confidence, and anger
• The moment he saw his dad's "shadows" for the first time
• Why strength without emotional range isn't leadership
• How marriage, grief, and failure shaped the man he’s becoming

It’s not about rugby. It’s about the work men have to do when the noise stops, and the feelings finally catch up.

Mike Bates grew up in chaos - violence, instability and the deep belief that he wasn’t enough. That belief followed him through the military, into high-stakes leadership, and even across a solo Atlantic row.

In this episode, Mike shares how childhood trauma shaped his mindset, relationships and sense of identity, and what it took to finally let go of performance and prove nothing to no one.

We talk about the rope climb that changed his life, the cost of people-pleasing, and how Brazilian jiu-jitsu helped him discover real emotional strength.

You’ll hear about:

• Growing up without his dad and how that created a fear of abandonment
• Using performance as a way to earn love and worth
• His transformation from elite leadership to emotional depth
• Why leadership without inner work eventually breaks down
• How jiu-jitsu reveals who you really are when everything else is stripped away

This is a story about limits, letting go, and learning to lead yourself first.