The second in our series of conversations about Cream Legbars, the increasingly popular blue egg laying chicken.

This is a really illuminating conversation with the experienced British Cream Legbar breeder Emma Middleton.

Emma knows more than anyone I’ve been able to find about the origins of the breed and more importantly the genetics behind the various traits that make this such a challenging and, as Emma says, “uniquely frustrating” bird to breed.

Emma’s been able to answer questions I’ve had about Cream Legbars for a long time including exactly where the cream gene came from.

She clears up, too, some major misinformation circulating in Australia about how to properly select for and breed this variety including what colour chick down is correct:

Over eight generations, Emma created Cream Legbars from scratch using the exact breeds that the variety’s creators, geneticists Reginald Punnett and Michael Pease did at Cambridge University in the early 1930s.

She’s also crossed pure Cream Legbars back to Brown Leghorns to improve the bloodline.

Emma explains in detail how to tell whether you actually have a Cream Legbar, as distinct from a Gold Legbar. Not to mention the confusion that silver can cause.

Other topics include:

• Where Emma sourced her genetic information about Cream Legbars
• The problems in trying to fix faults in Cream Legbars by bringing in other people’s lines
• How many generations it took to get back to cream after outcrossing to Brown Leghorns
• The test mating process
• How long she’s found you can run a closed flock without encountering inbreeding depression
• Her experience with small egg size in Cream Legbars
• The lack of a fixed genetic base in most lines of Cream Legbars in its home country of the UK
• How many birds Emma typically bred per generation
• How she created cream, gold and silver Legbars from scratch using other breeds
• The exact steps she took in each generation
• How to tell a Cream Legbar from a Gold and a Silver, based on both chick down and adult feathering
• The significance of gold smudges in the wing triangle as a telltale sign of a bird that is not cream
• The role of autosomal red in Cream Legbars, male (chestnut) and female (salmon breast)
• Crest size
• Yellow leg colour

Horse breeding and chicken breeding may seem like completely different endeavours but it turns out they have quite a bit in common… and of course they’re underpinned by the same genetic principles.

With more than 50 years' experience raising foals, esteemed Australian stock horse breeder Jeanette Gower knows a thing or two about genetics and its practical application.

I was keen to find out and find out what the horse breeding experience can teach us about how to approach poultry.

In this conversation I pick Jeanette's brain on everything from inbreeding and inbreeding depression to outcrossing and hybrid vigour.

Jeanette writes a fantastic blog on Substack which is where you can also find more information on her books about horse breeding.

Be sure to like and follow the show to find out when new episodes drop. And, if you like what you hear, leave us a review on your podcast app.

Worms are often the chief suspect when a backyard chicken gets sick.

But how often are they to blame?

This is the starting point for my conversation with poultry vet Grant Richards who has spent his 40-year career in chickens and chicken health.

Grant sits at the helm of Parasite Diagnostic Services where you can send poultry manure for worm testing so you might think he’d be talking up the dangers posed by intestinal worms. But his perspective is a lot more nuanced than that.

We discuss:

— How often worms are the culprit for sickness in backyard chickens

— The importance of testing for worm loads before de-worming a chicken

— Whether you should worm on a schedule

— What is a healthy worm burden in a chicken

— How chickens become “bombproof” against intestinal worms

— The necessity of exposure to worms in order for a chicken to develop natural resistance

— Understanding the parasite life cycle

— How chickens get worms and the role of intermediate hosts

— Why the mobile chicken tractor set-up is helpful in avoiding issues with worms

— How often to move your flock to fresh ground to avoid parasite problems

— How sun, rain, frost and grass length affect parasite survival in the environment

— How long to rest the ground before rotating your flock back there

— Whether baby chicks can hatch with worms

— The critical age for roundworm build-up in a chicken

— Why not to google your bird’s symptoms

— How long post-hatch it takes for a chick’s immune system to ‘fire up’

— Grant's take on diatomaceous earth

— Whether you or your dogs can catch worms from your chickens

— Whether Dr Richards thinks you should vaccinate your chickens

— Whether it makes sense to cull your flock if mycoplasma is detected

— The use of ivermectin-containing pour-on sheep and cattle drenches to control lice and worms in chickens

Cream Legbars are one of the most sought-after chicken varieties among those of us who love coloured eggs. They’re also one of the more complicated chickens to breed well. That’s why I went straight to the source, to the Cream Legbar’s home country of the UK where they were originally created at Cambridge University.

There I found experienced Cream Legbar breeder Ethan Rivers who's been breeding the variety longer than it's even existed in Australia.

In this conversation we discuss the faults found in the variety, how to work with them and mistakes that can trip up beginner breeders.

The cream gene is denoted by the abbreviation Ig — you’ll hear Ethan refer to it that way in this conversation. Another term you’ll hear is “gold, split for cream” which means a bird that is gold but carries one copy of the cream gene, hidden because it’s recessive.

Is there a topic you’d like Chook to look into? A guest you’d love to hear from?

Let us know by sending a note to jane@chookjournal.com.au

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If you’ve ever needed help with or had a question about a Brinsea-brand incubator, Loi Truong is the man who will have come to your rescue.

One of the loveliest and most helpful people working in chickens in Australia today, he holds the Brinsea distributorship in this country and has been incubating for decades. So I couldn’t think of anyone more qualified to talk about the ins and outs of incubating eggs at home.

In this conversation we discuss everything from storing eggs prior to incubation and why we incubate at 37.5 degrees when hen body temperature is much higher to dry incubation, incubating posted eggs, what humidity Loi recommends for incubating Marans eggs with their extra coat of dark pigment on the shell and what to do if there’s a power outage during incubation.

I also ask Loi to weigh in on the question that always sparks heated debate between egg sellers and buyers: can you tell whether an egg that doesn’t develop was fertilised by examining the yolk after it’s been incubated for five or ten days?

Other topics include:

— How interest in incubation has changed over the years

— The optimal age for putting an egg in the incubator

— Loi's experience incubating refrigerated eggs

— Horizontal vs vertical incubation

— Why turning during incubation is important

— The ideal turning interval

— Malpositioned or “breeched” chicks

— How long it takes after pipping for the chick to unzip

— The worst time to attempt an assisted hatch

— What hatch rate Loi gets from posted eggs vs eggs collected in person

— The consequences of incorrect humidity during incubation

— Candling to monitor air sac development

— How much temperature can vary during incubation without killing the chick

— The difference in setting temperature in still-air vs fan-forced incubators

— Whether you should incubate at 38 degrees

— How to correctly use an independent thermometer to check your incubator

— Candling prior to incubation

— “Sticky” chicks and “shrink wrapped” chicks

— The danger of too-high humidity during hatching

— The magic of broody hens

— Whether incubation technique can in any way influence the sex of the chicks that hatch

— Exploding eggs

— Whether it’s okay to remove fluffed up chicks while others are still hatching

— Using cheap incubators

From 20 chickens as a homeschooling project at the age of 8 to a million dollar business with 5000 chickens, certified organic.

As the brains and the brawn behind Madelaine's Eggs, the broad strokes of Madelaine Scott’s story are well known to Australians.

She burst into the public eye as a 19-year-old launching a crowdfunding campaign that raised 60 thousand dollars in 60 days to purchase an egg-grading machine.

In this conversation, now 31, Madelaine opens up about the day-to-day realities of running a free-range, organic operation including:

— The financial realities and how much she pockets in profit, relative to turnover

— How to care for chickens without worming and spraying them with chemicals

— Exactly what feed and which supplements she gives her flock

— The daily workload involved in running her free-range operation

— How many staff she now has and her role these days

— The organic certification process

— The prospect of H5N1 bird flu arriving in Australia and what it would mean for her operation

— Vaccines for chickens

— The phasing out of caged eggs in Australia

— Diversifying into meat (turkeys, "spent" hens) as well as eggs

— Plans for a micro-abattoir at Hollyburton Farm

— The homesteader lifestyle

You can check out Madelaine’s own chicken soup recipe in the Spring 2025 issue of Chook Journal, our fully digital, immersive magazine available now via the website chookjournal.com.au

Alf Woods is a singular figure within the Australian poultry community and someone who, in show circles, truly needs no introduction. He went to his first show at the age of 7 and, now 98, he’s been a fixture at the Melbourne Royal ever since. Having spent 9 decades in poultry, participating at just about every level of the fancy, it was a priceless opportunity to sit down with Alf and pick his brain. This conversation is jam packed with not only instruction in how to breed but anecdotes from a lifetime spent around chooks and chicken people.

Alf discusses:

— His method of single mating all his birds

— The importance of ruthless culling to eliminate faults

— His poultry "bible" aka stud book

— How he feeds his birds

— Some of the best reads from his enviable library of chicken books

— The unique Japanese fowl known as the Onagadori

— How he's never wormed a bird

— His daily routine with his birds, at 98

— His advice to new breeders starting out

— The perils of buying birds online

— Eating chicken soup every night

— Brother-sister matings

— The longest he's kept a line pure without outside blood

— Why you should not have a feed hopper in your chook pen

— Whether you should outcross to a male or female bird

— Beetle green sheen versus purple

— The fine line between show preparation and faking

— Whether he's ever bred himself into a corner and had to abandon a line

— How he trims rooster spurs

— Memorable adventures from a lifetime in chickens

As I was researching the cover story for the debut issue of Chook Journal, I kept uncovering question after question. It wasn’t until I met Paul Rodgers that the answers started to really flow. Paul knows probably more than most people about the history of Marans in Australia.

When he saw his first Marans, he says it was love. He went on to cofound the short-lived Australian Marans Club. Paul remains passionate about Marans but does worry that careless breeding or a failure to maintain the egg colour that defines the breed, could threaten its future in Australia.

Just a heads up - you’ll notice a discussion about beetle green sheen. Please note that subsequent to this conversation I got in touch with the Marans Club in France, for clarification. To see the French response to the beetle green sheen confusion, check out the cover story on Black Copper Marans in the September 2025 issue of Chook Journal, a fully digital, immersive magazine, available now at chookjournal.com.au Long story short, Paul is on the money.