“The biggest thing you have to be able to do with someone is step back, leave your ego at the door and just really both have the same mindset of like, 'Hey, we're in business together... every decision we make has got to be for the readers.” — Ryan Steck

“I get excited every time he sends me new material, then I take over and I do a little bit and he reads it and he said, 'Oh my god, this is so good.' ... It's the new stuff that gets you excited even more often, because you discover what your partner is writing almost in real time. So it's really cool.” — Simon Gervais

Ryan Steck is a freelance editor, an author, and the founder and editor in chief of The Real Book Spy. Ryan has been named an “Online Influencer” by Amazon and is a regular columnist at CrimeReads. Steck has “quickly established himself as the authority on mysteries and thrillers” (Author A.J. Tata) on his way to being endorsed by numerous #1 New York Times bestselling authors.

Simon Gervais is a former Canadian federal agent specializing in protective operations and counterterrorism. He's the New York Times and #1 Amazon bestselling author of 17 exciting thrillers. His Clayton White series is presently being adapted for TV by CBS Studios with Jerry Bruckheimer TV attached to produce. The Second Son, which was co-written with Ryan Steck, spent two consecutive months in the Kindle top 100 overall bestsellers.

Among other things, Ryan, Simon, and Carter discuss their different views on the outlining process, how their distinct writing voices come together when co-writing, and how Simon writes in his second language. At the end of their conversation, they make up a dark story using a line from Matt Goldman’s The Murder Show.

“From the time that I started publishing, my goal was to be able to do it full-time... it took 10 years to get there, but you know, slow and steady wins the race.”— Jen J. Danna

After over thirty years in infectious diseases research, Jen hung up her lab coat to concentrate on writing thrillers. She is the coauthor of the Abbott and Lowell Forensic Mysteries with Ann Vanderlaan, a series of suspenseful crime fiction with a realistic scientific edge. As Sara Driscoll, she writes the FBI K-9s thriller series, starring search-and-rescue team Meg Jennings and her black lab, Hawk. She also writes the NYPD Negotiators series. The first of her new standalone thrillers, ECHOES OF MEMORY, released in 2024.

Among other things, Jen and Carter discuss how Jen writes 3 books a year, AI in the writing industry, and Jen’s decision to re-edit five of her old novels. At the end of their conversation, they make up a descriptive story using a line from John Jakes’s Love and War.

“I figured out at some point along the way that I was happier trying and failing than I was not trying at all.” — Clémence Michallon

Clémence Michallon is an author and a journalist. Her debut thriller The Quiet Tenant was published in June 2023 and is an international bestseller. Her thriller Our Last Resort came out in July 2025. She was a staff writer at The Independent for five years, and is now a freelance journalist. Her work has appeared in The New York Times Book Review, Time Magazine, Cosmopolitan UK, and more. Clémence graduated from Sciences Po in Paris. She studied journalism at City University of London and received a master’s in Journalism from Columbia University.

Among other things, Clémence and Carter discuss forcing yourself to be bored to spark creativity, the benefits of having training in journalism, and why they never write the words “The End.” At the end of their conversation, they make up a creepy story using a line from Tana French’s The Searcher.

“You want to bond with the reader, you know? And you want to take the reader and basically say to the reader, I'm about to tell you a story now. You're not gonna believe this, but bear with me, okay? And once you've established trust with the reader, you can go pretty far.” — Joseph Finder

Joseph Finder is the New York Times bestselling author of 17 suspense novels. His books have won numerous awards, including the Strand Critics Award for Best Novel, the International Thriller Writers Award for Best Novel and the Barry Award for Best Thriller. The Boston Globe has called him a “master of the modern thriller.” Two of his novels have been made into major motion pictures, including High Crimes, adapted into the hit 2002 movie starring Ashley Judd and Morgan Freeman; and Paranoia, the 2013 film starring Harrison Ford, Gary Oldman, and Liam Hemsworth.

Among other things, Joe and Carter discuss writing about what you want to know, how changes in the publishing industry have made things harder for debut authors, and getting blurbed by Stephen King. At the end of their conversation, they make up a tense story using a line from Stephen King’s Just After Sunset.

“I've loved the actual act of writing. You know, I meet a lot of people who wanna be writers. I meet very few who wanna write. I always wanted to write.” — Gregg Hurwitz

Gregg Hurwitz is the New York Times #1 internationally bestselling author of 27 thrillers including the Orphan X series. His novels have won numerous literary awards and have been published in 33 languages. Gregg currently serves as the Co-President of International Thriller Writers (ITW). Additionally, he’s written screenplays and television scripts for many of the major studios and networks and is an award-winning documentary producer. Gregg has also written comics for AWA, DC, and Marvel. He's penned dozens of op eds and pieces for The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, and others. He also helped write the opening ceremony of the 2022 World Cup.

Among other things, Gregg and Carter discuss viewing writing as a compulsion, Gregg’s experiences getting published while in college, and learning who to trust when receiving critique and feedback. At the end of their conversation, they make up a suspenseful story using a line from Joseph Heller’s Catch-22.

Episode 212 of Making It Up is out and features Wendy Walker, the bestselling author of psychological thrillers including Don’t Look for Me, The Night Before, and All Is Not Forgotten, as well as multiple Audible Originals. Her latest book, Blade, draws from her past as a competitive figure skater and marks a personal and creative turning point in her career. Before writing full-time, Wendy practiced law and raised her three sons.

Among other things, Wendy and I discuss what it means to finally write the story that’s been living inside you for years, how immersive storytelling is changing the audiobook landscape, and why hiring help as an author isn’t a luxury—it’s a strategy. We also talk about vulnerability in creative marketing, the balance of truth and fiction, and how her latest work came together in a blur of sound design, stress, and storytelling. At the end of our conversation, we create a story about furries using a sentence from a Karin Slaughter novel.

“If you're not exploring, if you're not really kind of pushing limits, then you really have to ask yourself, well, what am I doing here? Like, this isn't accounting, you know what I mean? It's creative writing.” —Matthew Sullivan

Matthew Sullivan is the author of Midnight at the Bright Ideas Bookstore, an Indie Next Pick, B&N Discover pick, a GoodReads Choice Award finalist, and winner of the Colorado Book Award. He received his MFA from the University of Idaho and has been a resident writer at Yaddo, Centrum, and the Vermont Studio Center. His short stories have been awarded the Robert Olen Butler Fiction Prize and the Florida Review Editors' Award for Fiction. His writing has been featured in the New York Times Modern Love column and The Daily Beast, amongst others.

Among other things, Matthew and Carter discuss alcohol and writing, writing weird and unconventional novels, and how the unpredictability of success as an author makes you a better writer. At the end of their conversation, they make up a menacing story using a line from Abbott Kahler’s Where You End.

“Writer’s block is a myth. It’s your brain lying to you. Chefs don’t have chef’s block.” —Tod Goldberg

Tod Goldberg is a New York Times bestselling author of sixteen books, including the Gangsterland quartet, which have won/been a finalist for the Hammett Prize, the International Thriller of the Year and many more. His short fiction and essays appear widely and have been selected in Best American Mystery & Suspense and Best American Essays. He is a Professor of Creative Writing at the University of California, Riverside where he founded and directs the Low Residency MFA in Creative Writing & Writing for the Performing Arts.

Among other things, Tod and Carter discuss coming from a family of writers, observations from running a MFA program, and writing from a place of absurdity rather than darkness. At the end of their conversation, they make up a hilarious story using a line from Stephen King’s Everything’s Eventual.