Dr. Allison Pugh is Professor of Sociology at Johns Hopkins University and author of The Last Human Job, winner of the 2025 Best Book Award from the American Sociological Association. Her work examines how automation, efficiency, and quantification reshape work that relies on presence, dignity, and visibility. She introduces the concept of connective labor—the mutual, human work of recognizing another person and reflecting that understanding to them.

Louis Kim is a former Vice President at Hewlett-Packard, where he led teams in developing AI-enabled technologies for healthcare and other industries. After decades in corporate leadership, he is now pursuing a Master of Divinity at Duke Divinity School, focusing on hospice and palliative care. Alongside his theological training, Louis participates in Vatican-sponsored conversations on principled AI in healthcare, exploring where technology can assist care and where it must not replace human presence.

In this first part of our conversation, we discuss:

1. What in-depth interviewing reveals about being truly seen
2. How experiences of death shape our understanding of accompaniment
3. The difference between emotional labor and connective labor
4. How automation and standardization threaten dignity and belonging
5. Why institutions rely on checklists, data, and control
6. The factors driving institutional challenges to connective labor
7. Why human connection is defined by unpredictability
8. The role of moral formation in resisting depersonalization

• To learn more about Allison’s work, you can find her at: https://www.allisonpugh.com/
• To learn more about Louis’s work, you can find him at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisjkim/
• Books and Resources Mentioned: The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World (by Allison Pugh)

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

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