A CMO Confidential Interview with Dan Salkey, Co-Founder & Strategy Partner at Small World, an agency designed to create "entertainment first" brands. Dan discusses the concept of "Entertain or Die," the difference between "owning" and "renting" eyeballs, and why his focus is on "saves, likes, and shares." Key topics include: the fact that attention is earned; the difference between entertaining and selling; why many tech brands forget to entertain; and how to measure "attentive cost" versus cost per impression. Tune in to hear case studies on Liquid Death and Duolingo and why Net Scout produced a Werner Herzog film.

In this episode of CMO Confidential, Mike Linton sits down with Dan Salkey, Co-Founder and Strategy Partner at Small World, an agency on a mission to create entertainment-first brands. Dan unpacks his provocative framework: “Entertain or Die.” From building brand characters to measuring success in saves and shares—not impressions—this conversation is packed with insights for CMOs navigating the new attention economy.

🧠 Learn why the best brands own their eyeballs instead of renting them, what marketers can learn from creators like MrBeast, and why @netscoutinc made a Werner Herzog documentary to stand out.

🔍 Featuring case studies from Liquid Death, Duolingo, and other unexpected brand entertainers, this episode offers a blueprint for building marketing that actually gets watched—and shared.

🎯 Topics Covered:

• The rise of entertainment-first branding

• “Saves, likes, and shares” as new core KPIs

• Measuring attentive cost vs. cost per impression

• The hidden power of brand characters and mascots

• Why marketers need a writer’s room mindset

• How boring B2B brands can still break through

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Dan Salkey, Entertainment First Marketing, CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Small World Agency, Liquid Death Marketing, Duolingo Brand Strategy, Branded Content, Entertain or Die, Brand Characters, Marketing Strategy 2025, Attention Economy, NetScout Werner Herzog, MrBeast Brand Playbook, Content Marketing, Virality Metrics, Branded Entertainment, Marketing Innovation, Social Media Marketing, Save and Share Strategy, B2B Brand Breakthrough, Branded Documentary, Marketing Podcast

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Andy Sack and Adam Brotman, Co-Founders and Co-CEO's of Forum 3, authors of the book AI First, previously at Microsoft and Starbucks. They discuss why AI is different from previous technology advances and the series of "Holy Shit!" moments experienced when interviewing Sam Altman, Bill Gates and others. Key topics include: their belief that AI is "moving faster than you think" since it isn't constrained by an adoption curve or infrastructure; the power of Artificial General Intelligence which will be smarter than most experts; why trying to calculate the ROI of AI is comparable to measuring the return on electricity; and the possibility of 95% of marketing and agency jobs being impacted over the next 5 years. Tune in to hear how Chat GPT scored a top grade on the AP Biology Exam, how Moderna became an AI leader, and their tips for staying near the front of the wave.

This week on CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Adam Brotman, former Chief Digital Officer of Starbucks and co-CEO of J.Crew, and Andy Sack, venture capitalist and Managing Partner at Keen Capital. Together they co-authored AI First and co-founded Forum3, a company on a mission to educate businesses on how to thrive in the AI era.

In this episode, Adam and Andy recount their interviews with leaders like Sam Altman, Bill Gates, and Reid Hoffman—and unpack why we are at a true “Holy Sh*t Moment” in technology.

Learn how generative AI is poised to replace 95% of marketing tasks, what agentic AI means for the future of work, and why marketers need to shift from campaign thinking to orchestration and system design—fast.

Topics Covered:

• What Adam and Andy learned from interviewing tech’s top minds

• Why artificial general intelligence (AGI) is closer than you think

• How AI tools will transform agency and in-house marketing roles

• Why marketers must experiment now—or risk irrelevance

• The unexpected productivity ROI of adopting AI tools

This episode isn’t just about AI—it’s about how business leaders and marketers must transform to remain relevant in the age of exponential change.

00:00 - Intro & AI-Powered Marketing by Publicis Sapient

01:42 - Welcome + Adam Brotman & Andy Sack intro

04:45 - Why “AI First” started as “Our AI Journey”

08:13 - The “Holy Sh*t” moment explained

10:00 - Interviewing Sam Altman and the AGI revelation

15:50 - Bill Gates’ AI holy sh*t moment

20:30 - What AGI means for marketers and agencies

25:20 - Agentic AI and spinning up marketing agents

30:40 - Consumer behavior and synthetic influencers

34:50 - How agencies must evolve or die

38:20 - The case study of Moderna's AI-first approach

41:00 - Evaluating AI vendors + building internal councils

45:10 - The ROI of AI: Productivity & Unlocks

49:00 - Playbook for becoming an AI-first org

52:30 - Funny poker shirt story + parting advice

56:00 - Closing thoughts and next episode teaser

#GenerativeAI #CMOConfidential #AdamBrotman #AndySack #Forum3 #MarketingAI #AIInMarketing #AIRevolution #HolyShitMoment #AIFirst #SamAltman #BillGates #AGI #MarketingPodcast #DigitalTransformation #FutureOfWork #AIProductivity #ChiefMarketingOfficer #CMOLife #AIPlaybook #MarketingLeadership #AIForBusiness

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code + Theory, a growing 2000 person agency which combines technology and creativity. Michael discusses the disruption in consumer behavior, why B2B client service is becoming more holistic, and why companies should "go on offense" in a time of uncertainty. Key topics include: The strategic question of "What do you want your humans to be doing;" his belief that there will be a growing demand for ROI on tech spending; how everyone can become a creative change agent; and why he hates the concept of "The Big Idea." Tune in to hear the lesson of "prompt engineers" and an analogy of how playing in a punk band is like learning to use AI.

In this week’s episode of CMO Confidential, five-time CMO Mike Linton is joined by Michael Treff, CEO of award-winning agency Code and Theory for a no-holds-barred discussion on why most AI strategies are missing the point.

Treff—who leads an agency named B2B Agency of the Year by Ad Age and innovation standout by Fast Company—argues that leaders are mistaking AI tools for strategy. Instead, he lays out a bold case for orchestration—aligning people, tools, and data across the enterprise to drive real customer value. Together, Mike and Michael unpack:

• Why B2B marketers need to stop treating customers like corporate buyers and start treating them like humans.

• Why defensive strategies during disruption are a recipe for irrelevance.

• The myth of the “big idea”—and why creativity has been democratized.

• Why prompt engineers were never the future.

• What AI orchestration really means—and how it can finally connect data silos, unify customer journeys, and drive performance.

Whether you’re a CMO, agency leader, or aspiring executive, this is an unmissable playbook for navigating AI disruption, avoiding short-sighted efficiency traps, and building brands that thrive.

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch the full episode on YouTube.

🔗 Sponsored by @PublicisSapient — Smarter marketing, happier teams, wow-worthy customer moments.

Visit: https://www.publicissapient.com

#CMOConfidential #MarketingLeadership #AIinMarketing #MichaelTreff #CodeAndTheory #B2BMarketing #CMOStrategy #MarTech #MarketingPodcast #MarketingAI #MikeLinton #BrandStrategy #DigitalTransformation

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⏱️ YouTube Chapter Timestamps:

00:00 - Welcome to CMO Confidential

01:15 - Meet Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory

03:08 - AI Disruption in B2B: Humanizing the Customer

06:00 - Why B2B Requires a Holistic Customer Lens

08:47 - Agency Mergers & The Death of the Middle

11:35 - Scale vs. Focus: Who Wins in Holding Company Wars?

14:10 - Leadership in an Anxious Market: Offense vs. Defense

17:25 - Code and Theory’s Internal AI Transformation

20:15 - The Myth of the Prompt Engineer

22:10 - Why Most AI Strategies Are Flawed

25:00 - Connecting People, Tools, and Data with AI

27:15 - Democratizing Creativity: What It Really Means

30:00 - Why the Big Idea is Dead (and What Comes Next)

32:25 - Predictions for 2025 in B2B, Tech & AI

34:05 - Final Advice: Everyone Can Lead Change

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