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Buy the Numbers

Buy the Numbers

By: Mike Payne
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 A deep dive into the financials of running a Manufacturing business.2024 Economics Management Management & Leadership
Episodes
  • From First Questions to First Deals: Navigating Machine Shop Acquisitions, Ep #28

    From First Questions to First Deals: Navigating Machine Shop Acquisitions, Ep #28
    Sep 11 2025
    When you’re buying a machine shop for the first time, it’s easy to feel like you’re lost in the dark. I’ve been through more than 150 transactions in my career, but I still remember what it was like sitting across from my first seller—wondering if I was asking the right questions or if I was missing something important. That’s why I love conversations like this one. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jeff Lee, Operations Manager at Hayer Engineering in Singapore. Jeff reached out after listening to some of our episodes on acquisitions, and the quality of his questions made me realize they weren’t just for him—these are the same questions countless first-time buyers wrestle with but rarely get answered. Jeff shares his story of joining his family’s 30-year-old oil & gas machining business, beginning the search for potential acquisitions in the region, and running into the roadblocks that every buyer faces: how to evaluate opportunities, when to buy assets versus equity, and what really happens when you integrate a new shop. As we work through his list, I pull from my own playbook—what I look for in a shop, how I handle customer concentration, and why ‘people’ issues almost always end up being the biggest surprises. Whether you’re on your first acquisition or your fiftieth, I think you’ll find this conversation valuable, practical, and maybe even a little reassuring. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in… (0:43) Jeff Lee’s background and path to Hayer Engineering(3:00) Why pursuing deals can feel lonely and stressful(5:13) The characteristics I look for in a shop(7:47) Verdant Commercial Capital makes the process smooth & easy(8:25) What my acquisition strategy looks like: diversification and capabilities(11:08) Asset vs. equity deals and what transfers(14:13) Handling customer concentration risks(16:00) Declining revenue: neglect or market forces?(19:25) CapEx spending and owner age as indicators(21:18) Implementing a tech stack post-acquisition(23:53) Level up your workholding with SMW Autoblok (24:34) Onboarding employees and infrastructure quickly(27:01) Centralization vs. decentralization decisions(30:17) Managing customer relationships across shops(31:23) How people issues as the biggest surprises(33:58) Valuation approach and doubling value(39:54) Leveraging your strengths in due diligence(43:49) The future of machining: consolidation and automation(49:51) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA Resources & People Mentioned Episode #24: Demystifying the Buying and Selling of Machine ShopsEpisode #80: How to 4x Your Money with Machine ShopsVerdant Commercial Capital makes the process smooth & easyProShop ERPDatanomixLevel up your workholding with SMW Autoblok Grow your top and bottom line with CLA Connect with Jeff Lee Hayer EngineeringConnect on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedInConnect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK
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    51 mins
  • Top Shops Benchmarking: The Numbers That Separate Leaders from the Rest, Ep #27

    Top Shops Benchmarking: The Numbers That Separate Leaders from the Rest, Ep #27
    Aug 28 2025

    In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne sits down with Dave Necessary, Executive Vice President of Products and Markets at Gardner Business Media, to dig into the power of benchmarking and the Top Shops program. For more than a decade, Top Shops has been the definitive survey that shows manufacturers where they stand—highlighting the practices, strategies, and investments that consistently separate the best from everyone else.

    Dave shares how the survey functions like a business health check-up, providing both an industry-wide benchmarking standards report and a personalized scorecard for participating shops. From capital investment and automation strategies to marketing, HR practices, and efficiency metrics, Top Shops reveals the numbers that matter most to shop owners serious about growth.

    Mike reflects on his own journey—how filling out that survey after acquiring his first shop in 2018 shaped a five-year plan to transform into a Top Shop. Along the way, he and Dave connect the dots between numbers like revenue per employee, profit margin, and capacity utilization, and the strategies that drive them upward.

    Whether you’re buying, selling, or scaling a manufacturing business, this conversation underscores why understanding and acting on benchmarking data isn’t optional—it’s essential. And with the upcoming Top Shops Conference in Charlotte this November, you’ll discover why being part of this community can accelerate your shop’s success.

    You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...
    • (0:14) Register for Top Shops and meet us in Charlotte, NC!
    • (1:38) Learn about today’s guest, Dave Necessary
    • (3:34) Hill Manufacturing's experience with the Top Shops benchmarking report
    • (6:27) How the survey works, personalized reports, and five key differentiators
    • (12:02) Why benchmarking matters for any shop size and metrics that drive performance
    • (15:03) Automation and efficiency: horizontals, pallet changers, robots, ERP/MES, lights-out
    • (17:34) Using Top Shops metrics in acquisitions, valuations, and profitability decisions
    • (22:25) HR and marketing differentiators: cross-training, leadership, recruiting, video marketing
    • (27:50) Adding customer value with turnkey services and expanded capabilities
    • (28:46) Why you need to check out the SMW Autoblok catalogue
    • (30:58) Strategic investments: automation upgrades, workholding, and optimizing older machines
    • (39:55) Why you need to embrace the continuous improvement mindset
    • (43:39) Survey timeline, reporting process, and the upcoming Top Shops Conference
    • (46:20) What makes the event unique: peer learning, panels, networking, and fun
    • (49:20) Accessing the Benchmarking Standards Report and Dave’s special offer
    • (52:19) Grow your top and bottom-line with CLA
    Resources & People Mentioned
    • Register for Top Shops 2025 and meet us in Charlotte, NC!
    • Why you need to check out the SMW Autoblok catalogue
    • Contact Dave at DaveN@gardnerweb.com to get the Benchmarking Standards Report
    • Grow your top and bottom-line with CLA
    Connect with Dave Necessary
    • Connect on LinkedIn
    • DaveN@gardnerweb.com
    Connect With Buy the Numbers
    • Follow on LinkedIn
    • Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

    Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

    on Apple + Spotify
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    53 mins
  • Beyond the Highest Bid: Selling Your Business with Legacy in Mind, Ep #26

    Beyond the Highest Bid: Selling Your Business with Legacy in Mind, Ep #26
    Aug 14 2025
    Selling a business is rarely just about the numbers—and in this episode of Buy the Numbers, we explore why. Recorded at the CLA Connect Center in Minnesota, Mike Payne and guest co-host Erin Mickels sit down with two sets of owners who have recently gone through the process of selling their companies. From fielding unsolicited offers to choosing between 26 potential buyers, their stories highlight the strategic, emotional, and deeply personal factors that shape a sale. Joel Bauer of Midsota Manufacturing shares his unlikely journey from part-time welder to co-owner of a thriving 132-employee operation. When industry consolidation threatened to change the game, he had to decide whether to expand aggressively or seek the right partner to carry the business forward. Tyler and Ashley Arrell, owners of Perfect Exteriors, walk us through their experience navigating private equity interest, evaluating strategic buyers, and prioritizing their team’s future over the highest payout. Throughout the conversation, Erin provides expert perspective from CLA’s owner transition services team, breaking down how to evaluate offers, run an efficient process, and protect your legacy. The discussion covers everything from preparing your books for sophisticated buyers to why you should always run your business as if you’re planning to sell—even if you aren’t. If you’ve ever wondered how to choose between multiple offers, when to bring in professional advisors, or how to ensure your employees and customers are taken care of after the deal closes, this episode delivers both the technical insights and the human side of the transaction. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:32) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA(1:40) Introducing the guest co-host and today’s panel of sellers(3:56) Joel Bauer’s unconventional path to business ownership and growth(7:37) Tyler and Ashley Arrell’s journey to business ownership(12:35) The role of unsolicited offers in starting the sales process(14:33) How CLA helped assess and improve offers(17:36) Choosing between strategic buyers, private equity, and individuals(18:21) Fit, culture, and legacy versus the top-dollar offer(21:00) Narrowing down dozens of interested buyers(23:00) Why buyer interviews reveal more than just numbers(24:23) Considering internal transitions versus external sales(27:00) Running your business like you’ll sell it—whether you do or not(32:26) Nail the 7 habits of highly effective workholding with SMW Autoblok(33:08) Handling the sale process while keeping the business healthy(38:47) How unexpected events often accelerate sales decisions(40:50) Inside the interview process with potential buyers(44:13) The broker’s role in standing firm during negotiations(49:28) Why legal, tax, and financial specialists matter in M&A deals(50:22) Final advice for owners considering a sale(55:20) Navigating surprises in the buy/sell process(1:05:13) Register for Top Shops and get 20% off with code MAK20 Resources & People Mentioned Grow your top and bottom line with CLANail the 7 habits of highly effective workholding with SMW AutoblokRegister for Top Shops and get 20% off with code MAK20! Connect with CLA Clifton Larson Allen (CLA) Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedInConnect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK
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    1 hr and 6 mins
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