Mark Devlin is the CEO of Leyton Orient, a team that’s been riding the rollercoaster of English football right on the edge in recent years. From nearly going out of business and dropping into non-league football to bouncing back into League One playoff finals, the fans have been on a ride the few would choose. However, new ownership and big plans to build both on and off the pitch make this London club a hugely exciting football proposition for the next decades.

What has this journey looked like from the inside and how is success being built into the fabric of the future? Having been so close to joining the list that no one wants to be near, alongside Bury, now Morecombe and even Sheffield Wednesday, Orient’s struggles are another glaring reminder of the house of cards an owner financing model presents to the Football League.

Mark is an experienced CEO, leading Brentford through the early years of their ride to Premier League consistency. His take on what is required to build a club for the community and fan while keeping the finance team happy is what sets the O’s apart, and promises big things for a fanbase juggling the mixed emotions of just being happy to still have a football team alongside a want and expectation to win.

On today’s show we discuss:

Recovering from Financial Disaster:

• They story of Leyton Orient's near terminal financial crisis; what happens when a club runs out of money and the owner will no longer cover the losses?
• Relegation to non-league football and the impact falling through the decisions has on a club.
• How do you claw yourself out of a situation like this. The stories are often of disaster, but Leyton Orient have more than recovered in the past few years.
• Are they in a better place now than they were before?

The Value of New Ownership:

• What are the ambitions of new owner David Gandler and why did he decide to buy the club earlier this year?
• Where does the value lie in modern day football?
• What areas of the club need to be developed to both elevate the fan experience and make more money to fund the desired growth?
• What does it take to build a new stadium: from finding a site to financing a project in the hundreds of millions.
• Why this is an opportunity to build something that stretches beyond football; the value of a multi-sport model.

Matching Ambition with Longevity:

• Finding the balance between financial sustainbility and ambition is the hardest part of modern football ownership/management; what is Orient's plan to chase promotion while ensuring the business is safe?
• How much does it cost to get promoted? The crazy finances of the Championship laid bare...
• What did Mark learn from his time in charge of Brentford and applying some of the model they have so successfully been able to implement to reach and thrive and in the Premier League.
• The ambition is to be a sustainable Championship club, but do they dare to look beyond this?

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Peter McCormack is the Owner and Chairman of Real Bedford, who play in the 8th tier of English Football. But this is unique for a number of reasons. We always look for the stories that represent a different approach to running sports assets, and building your Premier League ambition around Bitcoin is certainly one of those.

Peter is the host of one of if not the biggest Bitcoin podcasts. As you’ll hear his journey to club ownership is as colourful as it is extraordinary; this is someone who has come through some challenging times to get to where he is now. As you’ve just heard in the intro, everyone laughed at him when he laid out the plan for Real Bedford, but with a wealth of both deep pocketed sponsors and investors, most notably the storied Winklevoss twins (of Olympic rowing, Facebook lawsuit, and Gemini fame to many of you I’m sure), this is quickly becoming a team with both the resources and strategy to fly up the pyramid.

With a women’s team competing in the third tier and proving equally ambitious, the plan is to build a club fully representing the community, full of opportunity and success. The usual challenges remain: success vs profit, full attendances, wider football governance. But as this is a place where we want to look at how to create sustained value beyond football’s historic and increasingly out of date financial levers, the Real Bedford model is a captivating alternative. Not for everyone, not guaranteed to work, and certainly unorthodox, but a bold attempt to break the wheel.

On today’s show we discuss:

Buying a Football Club

• How Peter went from addiction to building a media brand around Bitcoin
• The inside story of how Peter bought Real Bedford FC with podcast money
• How he convinced the Winklevoss twins to back a team in the tenth tier
• Why Real Bedford is run more like a startup than a sports club
• The brutal financial reality of owning a non-league football team
• Why so many lower-league clubs are unsustainable

Brand, Identity & Culture

• Why Real Bedford has a clearer identity than most football clubs
• The value of cult storytelling, local community, and crypto-native branding
• What clubs get wrong about women’s football and how Real Bedford does it differently
• How ambition and relentlessness are what drives the project
• Why does crypto present an opportunity on the financial side of football ownership that traditional approaches miss?

Leadership & Legacy

• What owning a football club taught Peter about management, burnout, and ego
• Why he’s building a club for his kids, not just for wins
• How he thinks about failure and what he’d do differently next time
• "It's not all about winning": Having this approach allows you to recognise success in broader terms, but does it only work at a lower level?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

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This week, we’re delighted to welcome Ryan Bertrand to the show, the only man to make his Champions League debut in the final…and of course win it in historic style with Chelsea in 2012. The regulars of you will know a conversation like this is exciting for us both as big Chelsea fans, and the shirts we wore throughout gave the game away anyway. But Ryan isn’t just the player who won that cup, played over 260 Premier League games, and was capped 19 times by England.

This is a former athlete with a story to tell that incorporates exploration away from football; interests that fans, the media, even those within the game don’t associate with players. You can do business, learn business, all while playing at the highest level. You can also leverage the power of your network and your unique experiences to add something few others can to businesses outside of the game.

This is something we encourage athletes, the ones who are interested off their own back and the ones who may not have understood the possibilities, to do in a world where opportunity can come from multiple sources. Ryan has built businesses, managed people, and carved out a path that now positions him to succeed at scale. What can you learn from him? It’s the balance of the stories we of course are desperate to hear paired with his transition from player to multi-faceted operator.

On today’s show we discuss:

Football Culture, Clubs & Career Decisions

• What Ryan learnt from being around legends like Drogba, Lampard, and Ashley Cole?
• What makes a great dressing room character and why every team needs one
• What happens when a club loses its “win at all costs” mentality?
• Why the best Managers are honest with their players and who was the worst manager he played under
• What really goes on during loan deals, and why he cancelled his own loan?
• How do directors, signings, and behind-the-scenes agendas shape team selection?

Money, Fame & Mistakes

• What’s the financial trap that catches most young players off guard?
• Why do so many players go broke despite millionaire contracts?
• The mistake that almost cost Ryan his England career
• Why did Ryan get into investing and how’s he helping other players now?
• What does Ryan think about today’s player brands?

Retirement, Identity & Reinvention

• What’s the real emotional toll of retiring from football?
• What happens to your identity when you’re no longer “the footballer”?
• What advice does he give to younger players about career and legacy?
• Why did Ryan refuse to be defined by punditry or football alone?
• What would he change about how football prepares players for life after sport?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

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This week, we’re delighted to welcome the legendary Guenther Steiner to the show. One of the most iconic Team Principal’s to grace the paddock, the personality and energy he brings to the room is not just a show put on for the Drive to Survive cameras. What you have seen on TV is a true account of the man, taking the mickey out of us from the off while delivering such a compelling view on life as a Team Principal and the wider world of F1.

Having left Haas at the end of 2023, he seemed relaxed and free from the pressures of day to day management in one of sport’s most high pressure environments. The toll it takes when under such scrutiny without respite is one of the most fascinating aspects of executive management in F1. Christian Horner’s departure from Red Bull last week tees up the conversation focusing on what happens when a leader departs, but also how well prepared organisations are to deal with unexpected circumstances.

Guenther’s profile has become a poster for modern F1; someone who the fans didn’t have exposure to thrust into the limelight as a result of a turbo charged media and brand strategy. But he is more than the big smile and humour. This is someone who founded a team from scratch, operated it under extremely difficult circumstances, and gave life to the sport where it was most needed. He does not disappoint.

On today’s show we discuss:

Running an F1 Team

• What goes into running an F1 team and why it’s more business than racing
• The chaos and logistics of travelling with the F1 circus
• The inside story of how Haas F1 was built from scratch
• Why the cost cap has improved competition and how it changed the sport as a whole
• What no one tells you about a team principal leaving: power shifts, media spin, and personal fallout
• Why Guenther believes being a good team boss is more about managing people than cars

The Mediafication of F1

• How Drive to Survive changed the sport and how it changed Guenther’s life
• The shock of becoming globally famous just for doing your job
• Guenther’s take on the Brad Pitt F1 movie and what Hollywood will never get right about racing
• Why modern drivers need to master more than just the car; media, messaging, and memes included
• The hidden costs and benefits of turning Formula 1 into entertainment
• Why it’s not just Netflix who created a new generation of fans

Drivers

• Why you need two number 1 drivers to compete at the top
• Who has more power today: the drivers or the teams?
• How to manage modern drivers; especially their egos, entourages, and online presence
• The difference between a quick driver and a team player
• Who would be Guenther’s dream driver lineup (for the memes)

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

RUNNA
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This week, we’re delighted to welcome Thomas Robson-Kanu to the show, known to many of you I’m sure as Hal. The different names he has gone by is the perfect demonstration as to why this is such a unique story. A footballer with over nearly 500 competitive games under his belt and a businessman with revenues in the tens of millions, Thomas is the epitome of creating additional opportunity alongside elite sporting performance.

Many of us think straight to that momentous moment in Euro 2016 when he scored the goal of goals against Belgium to put Wales in their first Semi-Final. As incredible as that was, it doesn’t come close to doing him justice. The Turmeric Co has become a leading company in the food and beverage industry, with the shots extracted directly from turmeric roots linked to Hal overcoming career ending injuries and chronic inflammation. We have to be careful about how we directly link this to recovery, but everything points to major health benefits and recovery.

But how do you build a business and compete in the Premier League at the highest level? This is a conversation for everyone; any athlete looking to understand how you can influence the business world, Hal gives one of the best explanations we’ve heard on 80 shows. Anyone interested in the realities of building a business alongside another high intensity career, this is also for you. Not to mention, from a fan point of view, it’s another reveal on the people behind the athletes we celebrate but don’t give full recognition to.

We have put a link to the Turmeric Co below (not a paid advert!) because I think this genuinely something you should try. I’m excited for you to hear this.

On today’s show we discuss:

Football, Media & Player Empowerment

• What was it like to walk away from football while still receiving offers?
• How do you recover after being told you’ll never play without pain again?
• Why do so few players take control of their own stories?
• How does the football system fail young players in preparing them for life after the game?
• Why media narratives can overlook the full story of a player's journey

Entrepreneurship & the Athlete Mindset:

• How did he balance building The Turmeric Co. while still playing professionally
• Why sports people make the best entrepreneurs
• Why resilience, discipline, and recovery matter just as much in business as in elite sport
• Building a brand off the back of a sporting career
• The mindset of training like every game could be your last and how that mentality translated to startup life
• What made Hal believe a turmeric shot could replace surgery

Footballing Legacy

• Why careers aren’t defined by stats, but by moments.
• The magic of the Euro 2016 tournament and how it reshaped Hal’s legacy
• How can players prepare emotionally and financially for retirement
• Mentoring the next generation: what young footballers need to hear now.

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

RUNNA
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AND

You can get your hands on some of the awesome Turmeric Co products here with our special code BIS30 for 30% off of orders!

This week, we’re delighted to welcome Wolves Chairman Jeff Shi to the show. Having been at the club since 2016, he has been a key part of the club’s rise from Championship survival to top half Premier League finishes and European quarter finals. Currently enjoying their longest run of Premier League football, there is a lot to be proud of.

Jeff hasn’t done a huge amount of interviews. With the club surviving a tricky period last year when their top flight status was at risk for half the season, now is the time to talk to the fans and wider football community about both his ambitions for the club moving forward and how he believes a club needs to be run to bring both stability and success. He is candid in his reflections; it took him a while to understand what it really takes to run a club in this country. But in this era where there is a demand for access and insight into our top teams, a Premier League Chairman keen to come and open up on his philosophies and development plans is to be admired.

From signing top European players while in the Championship to building for the future with Vitor Pereira, it’s time to take a look inside a top Premier League team.

On today’s show we discuss:

The Wolves Project:

• Why Wolves is still seen as a project in progress and how the club has evolved under Fosun’s ownership
• What kind of long-term vision Fosun has for the club, and why sustainability now outweighs pure spending
• Balancing business logic with football emotion
• How Wolves preserve their club identity while operating as part of a global group
• Why Jeff sees his role as a ‘guardian’, not just a CEO and how he tries to protect Wolves' long-term future

Player Trading and Squad Building:

• How Wolves approach squad construction after big-name departures
• Why Jeff doesn’t regret selling key players and what he looks for in a signing beyond just talent
• How Jorge Mendes, data, and direct club scouting all influence Wolves’ recruitment model
• The economics of selling academy players and why the club must now “sell smart”
• Why Wolves is one of the best clubs in Europe for young players to develop

Financial Reality of the Premier League:

• Why Wolves' net spend has dropped and why that doesn’t reflect a lack of ambition
• How the club is adapting to stricter FFP regulations and evolving its internal culture
• What fans misunderstand about sustainability, profit, and the cost of competing with richer clubs
• The challenge of stadium redevelopment and how infrastructure investment plays into the club’s future

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

RUNNA
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This week, we’re delighted to welcome Millwall’s Managing Director Mark Fairbrother to the show. This is a football club that many people both in and out of football have a preconceived idea about, built around historical associations with hooliganism and social unrest. These perceptions are rooted in media portrayal, cultural symbolism and sociopolitical factors rather than the club’s present day values.

So, what does the Millwall of today represent and stand for? Off the back of a hugely successful Championship campaign which saw the club fighting for a play-off spot on the last day of the season, eventually finishing 8th, Mark is building both a club that can push the boundaries of its modest budgets (comparative to their competitors) and act as a pillar of the community. Football clubs are more influential than ever to the people that support them and localities they serve; this is a club going a step further.

We’re very excited to bring you this; an insight into one of England’s most notable clubs intent on rooting itself high up the football pyramid.

On today’s show we discuss:

The Millwall Identity:

• What makes Millwall unique and why does the club's reputation precede it?
• How does the club lean into its history without being constrained by outdated stereotypes?
• What does “no one likes us, we don’t care” mean to the leadership today? Is it a challenge or a strategic asset?
• Can a club change how it’s seen without losing its soul?

Running a Championship Club:

• How do you balance short-term results with long-term stability in a volatile league?
• What are the day-to-day commercial realities of Championship football?
• How does Millwall approach player trading and squad investment with limited resources?
• How do media rights and the recent Sky deal affect clubs like Millwall?
• Is the EFL sustainable as a whole or are financial disparities becoming too great?

Football Business vs. Football Culture

• What are the pressures of running a club where emotion runs high, but margins are tight?
• How do you manage fan expectations while still being fiscally responsible?
• Is the modern football club more like a community anchor or a business enterprise and what happens when those two pull in different directions?
• What’s the biggest misconception fans have about how football clubs are run?

Millwall's Future

• What does success look like for Millwall? Is it promotion, survival, or something else?
• How is the club investing in infrastructure, community, and culture to grow sustainably?
• What are Millwall’s ambitions on and off the pitch in the next five years?
• Can the club compete with parachute-funded rivals while staying true to its values?
• What role does leadership at club level play in shaping the future of the Championship?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

RUNNA
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This week we’re delighted to welcome Carl Frampton to the show. Second dive into boxing is long overdue and so much has happened since we last visited the sport. A boxing legend and Ring Magazine ‘Fighter of the Year’ in 2016, he was the first Northern Irishman to hold world titles in two weight classes, Carl is recognised as one of the best fighters of his generation.

As you may expect, there is far more to him than the success he achieved in the ring. This was also the time for us to understand what the life of a top class fighter looks like, and how the business of the sport works from the athlete’s perspective. Saudi involvement has elevated both prize money and fight calibre in recent times, correcting some of the big problems in the sport and making the fights that everyone wants to see actually happen. But this hasn’t always been the case, and from the promotion world that can consist of exploitation and mismanagement to the challenge of driving commercial opportunities building the brand of the individual, Carl’s story is one of both past and present.

Now one of the leading media figures in the sport as well as exploring a number of business ventures including his own whiskey brand, we take a look inside a sport that is re-establishing itself as one of the major assets in global entertainment. Whether a fan of Carl or just fascinated by the boxing industry, this is one you’ll enjoy.

On today’s show we discuss:

Boxing Industry: A Good Place to be?

• Why is professional boxing considered by Frampton to be a “crooked” and exploitative business?
• What happened in Carl Frampton’s legal dispute with Barry McGuigan, and what does it reveal about fighter vulnerability?
• Is the real danger in boxing the fights themselves, or the hundreds of rounds of sparring in training camps?
• What can be done at the coaching level to reduce head trauma and protect fighters?

Business of Boxing:

• How does a fighter’s earning potential evolve from early career to world championship level?
• What role do management structures play in limiting or enabling endorsement and sponsorship deals?
• Why did Frampton earn more from sponsorships after leaving his initial management, even without a world title?
• Why is building a brand now essential for boxers to reach the top commercially?
• Who are the best and worst examples of fighters whose success (or lack thereof) was defined by branding?

Changing World of Boxing:

• How has Saudi Arabia, and specifically Turki Al-Alshikh, changed the boxing landscape?
• Why are previously impossible matchups now becoming reality, and how did the Saudi-backed model enable this?
• Does influencer boxing help or hurt the sport overall?
• How are fighters like Jake Paul impacting the visibility and pay of other boxers, especially women?
• Is jealousy among traditional boxers driving backlash against influencer fights?

Fighter Psychology & Motivation:

• How did Frampton’s mindset evolve through his career, and did he ever truly enjoy boxing?
• Why did he set a retirement age early on, and how did that shape his choices in the ring?
• What motivates fighters to retire and then return and is it often driven by financial pressures?
• How are fighters like Jake Paul impacting the visibility and pay of other boxers, especially women?

A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:

RUNNA
Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access!
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Revolut
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