In this episode of The Future of Finance, host Georges Dyer sits down with Jon Lukomnik — investor, author, corporate governance pioneer, and one of the main architects of system-level investing. Drawing on his experience managing New York City’s pension funds in the 1990s, Jon recounts the moment he realized that traditional Modern Portfolio Theory (MPT) was no longer sufficient for investors responsible for real-world liabilities. The conversation traces his decades-long journey toward developing “beyond MPT” thinking, culminating in his influential book Moving Beyond Modern Portfolio Theory and the forthcoming System-Level Investing Handbook.

Jon explains why the majority of investors’ returns are shaped not by stock picking, but by overall market performance — and why investors must understand, steward, and take action to support the health of social and environmental systems to manage systemic risk. He highlights real examples from global pension funds, insurers, and asset managers who are leading this shift, and discusses tools such as collaborative engagement, policy advocacy, and rethinking investment beliefs. Jon also tackles critiques of systemic stewardship, the politicization of ESG, the role of academia, and how system-level thinking can shape the future of finance.

The episode closes with rapid-fire questions covering food, music, teaching at Columbia, AI governance, and Jon’s vision for a financial system that supports — rather than undermines — a thriving real economy.

This episode is brought to you by Metis Global Partners.

Keywords: System-level investing, Modern Portfolio Theory, beta activism, universal ownership, systemic risk, institutional investors, collaborative engagement, policy advocacy, sustainability and finance, investment beliefs