In the Ten Steps to Autocracy, step four is convincing citizens that democracy just isn’t working. If democracy isn’t working, then people will be seduced by populist promises and grievance politics. That’s why Democrats and the rest of us standing up to autocracy must have a positive vision of the future, and a realistic path to get there. One idea that has taken off among those thinking about Democrats’ next act is the “abundance agenda.” Crafted in their co-authored book Abundance, Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson argue for a simple but powerful idea: Democrats need to operate from a place of plenty, not scarcity. Liberalism can’t just protect and preserve, it must build the economy, infrastructure, power and reach. On today’s show, Stacey sits down with Ezra Klein, New York Times columnist, host of his popular eponymous podcast, The Ezra Klein Show, and co-author of Abundance, to ask: Can this vision help us reclaim the promise of democracy and redefine Democrats as the party that actually serves the people? And how can it be used not only to improve Americans’ lives, but also to stop Trump and the Republicans in their tracks?

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

Learn & Do More:

1. BE CURIOUS: If you want to dig deeper into the Abundance Agenda grab Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson’s book Abundance—available wherever books are sold. And for smart, trusted takes, I strongly encourage you to listen to The Ezra Klein Show.
2. SOLVE PROBLEMS: As Ezra said, the hoops we often have to jump through to be heard by people in power favors those who are already powerful. Show up to local meetings where the public has the right to comment on something that’s happening in your community, and advocate for those who can’t be there.

DO GOOD: What is unfolding in D.C. is more than an over-reach. It is yet another example of Step 9 of the 10 steps toward autocracy, which expands the use of military power and creates space for private violence. One of the targets for this occupation and removal are the homeless in Washington. If you want to support those who are pushing back, please consider making a donation to Miriam’s Kitchen, which uses a comprehensive approach to eliminating the housing crisis in Washington – from providing meals and connecting people to social services, to advocating for providing the homeless with permanent, stable housing. Visit miriamskitchen.org.

Christian nationalism is an extremist, anti-democratic ideology rooted in the belief that the United States should be a nation for Christians to the exclusion of all others. In modern times, the Trump administration and its Republican allies have wielded this ideology as a weapon to divide Americans and implement an agenda via plans like the infamous Project 2025 that eviscerates the rights of immigrants and the LGBTQ+ community, questions the rights of women to vote, restores a freedom to discriminate against others and targets reproductive rights. This week, in response to a listener question asking what Christian nationalism has to do with the central tenets of Christianity, Stacey shares her own experience as a progressive, democratic Christian, pulling back the curtain on a core truth: the malice and hatred preached by right-wing religious leaders who shape our politics has nothing to do with Jesus’s actual teachings. She’s joined by Bishop William Barber, president of Repairers of the Breach, co-chair of the Poor People’s Campaign, and professor at Yale Divinity School and Father Greg Boyle, Jesuit priest, founder of Homeboy Industries, and author. Together, they break down the threat Christian nationalism poses to democracy and show how faith, at its best, can be a powerful force for justice and progress. This inspiring conversation has so much to offer all our listeners, whether they come from a Christian background, some other faith background, or no faith at all.

Learn & Do More:

BE CURIOUS: To learn more about progressive Christian philosophy, liberation theology is a good place to start: read “A Theology of Liberation” by Gustavo Gutierrez and “The Cross and the Lynching Tree” by James Cone.

SOLVE PROBLEMS: Join secular or interfaith organizations that can oppose the march of Christian nationalism and reassert our faith pluralism. Check out the Interfaith Alliance at interfaithalliance.org, whose mission is to advocate at all levels of government for an equitable and just America. Look for similar groups where you live — but remember, belonging must be met with volume and action.

DO GOOD: Visit homeboyindustries.org to learn how you can volunteer or donate to support their programs. Check out poorpeoplescampaign.org to get involved with a movement led by the poor and dedicated to supporting those in poverty across the country.

Donald Trump has been called many things: authoritarian, racist, liar, scam artist. Stacey Abrams is adding one more…aspiring autocrat. Inspired by Princeton professor Kim Scheppele, Stacey has remixed the “The Ten Steps to Autocracy” to reflect today’s political reality. And embedded in that framework is a chilling move the administration and Republicans have played repeatedly since inauguration: attack the media until no one knows what’s true.

Just this year alone, Trump has launched frivolous lawsuits against CBS, ABC, and the Wall Street Journal. He banned the Associated Press from the White House press pool for months. And his administration has weaponized the Federal Communications Commission against major broadcasters and public media alike. For Republicans, “fake news” often just means news that tells the truth about their attacks on America. Their response? Undermine, sue, intimidate, block access. And many media corporations are bowing to the pressure. This week, Stacey sits down with journalist and founder of STATUS, a new media venture shining a light on the power dynamics inside the press, Oliver Darcy, to unpack the state of media independence as the Trump administration’s attacks escalate.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

Learn & Do More:

BE CURIOUS: Subscribe to Oliver’s newsletter, Status, at status.news, and check out his new podcast Power Lines to learn more about how media shapes society.

SOLVE PROBLEMS: Consider donating to your local public radio station and to PBS to help keep important programming and vital emergency alerts alive.

DO GOOD: You can also support trusted news outlets by purchasing a subscription. These organizations rely on reader support—especially during times of financial uncertainty.