Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Garlick and Mr. Luke Heintschel, headmaster of Coeur du Christ Academy, discuss the rest of ante-purgatory and then the first terrace--the purging of pride.

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The conversation explores the transition from Ante-Purgatory into the proper mountain of Purgatory and the first terrace dedicated to purging the sin of pride. Garlick describes this section as one of his favorites in the entire Purgatorio, praising Dante’s ability to provide a rich “liturgy” and spiritual library of resources for reshaping the soul into the beautiful image of Christ. The episode emphasizes Purgatorio as a positive map for sanctification and theosis, contrasting sharply with the Inferno’s exposure of sin’s ugliness.Guest Introduction and Classical Education Insights

Luke Heintschel shares his personal journey from evangelization and biblical theology into classical education, explaining how he came to see the liberal arts tradition—long cultivated by the Church—as the most effective means of making Catholicism relevant to contemporary young people. He describes his school’s mission of forming saints, scholars, and servants through the historic Catholic educational model. Deacon and Heintschel discuss the harmony of faith and reason, noting how reading great books alongside Scripture and theology reveals that the God who grants intellect is the same God who died on the cross. They highlight the value of using Dante’s Purgatorio in moral theology classes, where it serves not as a list of rules but as a vivid portrayal of transforming the heart’s disordered loves toward their divine end.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio

09:02 Understanding Purgatorio: A Map for Spiritual Growth

15:17 Dante's Intercessory Prayer and Its Significance

24:13 The Role of Beatrice and the Nature of Beauty

34:53 Dante's Political Critique and the State of Italy

43:05 The Call to Higher Patriotism

53:44 Understanding Virtue: Natural vs. Theological

59:35 The Valley of the Kings: Political Failures and Redemption

01:15:02 Dante's Heroism and Divine Grace

01:19:41 The Three Steps to Purification

01:28:10 The Role of Humility in Purgatory

01:51:27 The Purpose of Purification

01:59:24 Contrappasso: The Nature of Punishment in Purgatory

02:04:44 Examples of Pride: Lessons from the Past

02:16:26 The Beatitudes and the Path to Humility

02:23:47 Eagerness to Ascend: The Transformation of the Soul

Moral Theology and the Purpose of Purgatorio

The hosts stress that moral theology is not merely about avoiding sin but about becoming beautiful like Christ through active configuration to His image. Purgatorio offers a lifelong guide for this ascent, presenting prayers, hymns, scriptural examples, and artistic visions tailored to remedy each vice. They critique modern reductions of ethics to a “negative list” of prohibitions, arguing that Dante invites readers to pursue positive virtue and interior change.

In Canto 6, the souls in Ante-Purgatory eagerly seek Dante’s prayers, illustrating the Catholic doctrine of intercession for the dead as a participation in Christ’s merits. Virgil explains that purgation is possible through the resurrection, and the episode includes a brief catechesis on the communion of saints across the Church Militant, Penitent, and Triumphant. Beatrice is presented as an icon of divine beauty and grace, with the...

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo, the Warren Chair of Catholic Studies at the University of Tulsa, discuss the Ante-Purgatory, the foot of Mount Purgatory (Cantos 1-5).

Check out our guide on Dante's Purgatorio (out soon!)

Visit Dr. Jason Baxter's website and use "Ascend" in the promo code for 20% off his Purgatorio audiobook.

Thanks for the Center for Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College for their support!

The conversation with Dr. Prudlo and Deacon Garlick on Cantos 1–5 of Purgatorio opens with the dramatic shift from the despair of Inferno to the hope and refreshment of Purgatory.

In Canto 1, Dante and Virgil emerge from Hell onto the shores of Mount Purgatory at Easter dawn, where Dante humbly invokes Calliope, the Muse of epic poetry, signaling his project as “the Christian epic” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). They meet Cato the Younger, a pagan suicide saved by special grace, who embodies the four cardinal virtues and serves as Purgatory’s guardian. Prudlo emphasizes the shock: “Cato the pagan, the suicide is going to heaven. And we have got to confront that or we're going to miss so much of what Dante has to tell us here” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). The ritual of washing with dew and girding with the humble reed contrasts the broken plants of the suicides in Hell and symbolizes the beginning of true humility and ascent.

Cantos 2–5 introduce the late-repentant souls and the mountain’s structure. In Canto 2, an angelic boat ferries souls singing “In exitu Israel de Aegypto,” a psalm of liberation that Prudlo calls “a multifaceted song” evoking Exodus, baptism, and community (Dr. Donald Prudlo). Casella’s song of Dante’s own poetry enchants the group until Cato rebukes their idleness.

Cantos 3–5 explore excommunicated sinners like Manfred (“even under a curse like mine, no one's ever so lost that eternal love cannot come back, as long as hope has any sprouts of green” – Manfred via transcript) and the slothful Belacqua, who banters with Dante like old friends. Prudlo highlights the power of last-minute mercy and intercession: “Mary is the last refuge of sinners” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). The cantos teach that Purgatory is a place of communal hope, where grace reaches even the unlikely, and purification begins with humility, prayer, and rightly ordered love—setting the stage for the active ascent through the terraces.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Dante's Purgatorio

04:42 The Importance of Reading Purgatorio

08:02 Themes of Emancipation and Freedom

10:57 The Role of Cato in Purgatorio

13:49 Cato's Significance and Political Implications

17:00 Cato as a Precursor to Christ

19:51 Dante's Literary Techniques and Inspirations

22:56 Contrasting Ulysses and Dante

25:36 Cato's Death and Its Symbolism

28:52 The Nature of Purgatory and Salvation

31:51 Cato's Virtues and Their Relevance

34:49 The Relationship Between Cato and Christ

37:48 Conclusion and Reflections on Purgatorio

50:03 Understanding Cato's Role in Purgatorio

52:43 The Heartbreaking Choice of Cato

54:39 Rituals and Purification in Purgatory

01:00:18 The Arrival at Purgatory

01:06:34 The Significance of Water in Salvation

01:12:09 Virgil's Role and the Nature of Guidance

01:24:57 Manfred: A Case of Late Repentance

01:29:38 The Role of Intercessory Prayer in Purgatory

01:34:00 Understanding Mount Purgatory and Its Significance

01:40:15 The Character of Belacqua and Themes...

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dr. Jason Baxter and Dcn. Harrison Garlick come together to introduce Dante's Purgatorio and Dr. Baxter's new translation!

We are reading Dante's Purgatorio for Lent. Join us!

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!

Check out our LIBRARY of written guides to the great books!

DISCOUNT: Check out Dr. Jason Baxter's website and enter "Ascend" to receive **20%** off the Purgatorio audiobook read by Dr. Baxter!

Check out Dr. Baxter's Substack article on his new translation.

And thank you to the Center of Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College for promoting this reading of the Purgatorio!

Dr. Baxter first describes the Center for Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College as a fellowship program (Angelico Fellows) that immerses students in beauty across the arts, music, literature, and theology—through concerts, museums, and pilgrimages—to foster interiority and the conviction that “beauty can save the world.”

The conversation then contrasts Purgatorio with the Inferno: while the latter is dark, lurid, and focused on judgment, Purgatorio is a place of hope, mercy, transformation, and “eternal New Year’s resolutions,” where repentant souls engage in spiritual exercises to purify their tarnished mirrors, learn authentic love and prayer, and prepare for Paradise. Baxter likens the shift to moving from heavy metal to Schubert, emphasizing greenness, brightness, and unexpected mercy.

Baxter explains that his translation began as a personal quest for mastery—going word-by-word to internalize Dante like memorizing a piano piece—but evolved into a philosophy capturing Dante’s “fugue” of style: ascending, prolix syntax with lofty classical allusions layered over humble, earthy words that reflect Franciscan humility and incarnational Christian poetics. Examples include goats ruminating on the “foco d’amore” (fire of love) amid elevated star imagery, or Statius calling Virgil’s Aeneid “una mamma” (translated “mommy”).

He describes Purgatorio as spiritual surgery—painfully removing the soul’s “carcinogenic” elements through grace-filled cooperation—and a map for configuring to Christ beyond mere sin avoidance. Baxter advises first-time readers to pause at puzzling images or word choices, ask “why would Dante do that here?,” trust their instincts, and consider his audiobook for the text’s soundscape, while Deacon Garlick stresses the canticle’s role as a spiritual guide that mirrors one’s own maturation toward God.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio

03:43 The Center for Beauty and Culture

05:40 Understanding Dante's Purgatorio

07:54 The Nature of Purgatorio

14:54 Dante the Pilgrim vs. Dante the Poet

19:32 The Spirituality of Translation

20:14 The Philosophy of Translation

30:02 Dante's Christian Poetics

34:22 Exploring Dante's Poetic Style

36:51 Juxtaposition in Dante's Imagery

41:42 The Concept of Spiritual Surgery

44:49 The Journey of Holiness

48:13 The Role of...