Welcome back to And We Feel Fine, where each week we ask what’s ending, what’s beginning—and what it means to build with care.

In this episode, Katie Smith and Beth Rudden sit down with Pacific tech leader Julia Pahina for a radically honest conversation about the intersections of technology, culture, and systems change.

We talk:

• Why ancestral wisdom and relational intelligence belong in AI
• How to name capitalism and white supremacy in tech spaces
• What it means to “walk out” of harmful systems and create new ones
• The invisible labor of systems change—and the trust it requires
• Data sovereignty, trauma-informed design, and the power of community-led innovation

Julia shares her journey from surviving deep trauma to building systems change across Aotearoa and beyond—explaining why digital futures need care, not conquest.

📍 Follow Julia @lifeofjuliapahina

🔗 Learn more at Wolfe and Fibre Fale

This episode is brought to you by:

🧠 Bast.ai — for trusted, explainable AI

💬 Humma.AI — building Empathetic AI™ rooted in consent and community

🎤 About the Hosts

Beth Rudden (she/her) is the CEO of Bast.ai, a global data scientist and expert in trustworthy, explainable AI rooted in anthropology and care.

Katie Smith (they/them) is the CEO of Humma.AI, a privacy-first AI company that redefines technology through empathy and consent.

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💬 What systems are you walking away from—and what are you building in their place?

The era of the lone genius CEO is over. What’s rising now? Leadership that’s collaborative, culturally aware, and rooted in care.

In this episode of And We Feel Fine, co-hosts Beth Rudden and Katie Smith unpack what leadership means in a world shifting from scarcity to abundance—and why it’s not about being in charge, but showing up with empathy, vision, and community. We explore how AI and systems change are challenging old paradigms, and how the most powerful leadership today might come from the most unexpected places.

Whether you’ve led a company, a movement, a family—or are still figuring out what leadership means to you—this conversation offers perspective, challenge, and hope.

Watch for:

• 💥 Why the “big man” leadership model is collapsing
• 🤖 How AI could finally center empathy and equity
• 🌱 The radical power of long-term thinking
• 🏳️‍🌈 How queer, neurodivergent leaders are shifting culture
• 📖 Real stories of rebuilding after burnout, and leading differently

Sponsors:

• Bast.ai — Transparent, human-centered AI that reflects how people really live
• Humma — Empathetic AI™ — Made by and for the Community

Timestamps:

00:00 – What’s ending and beginning in leadership

06:32 – Scarcity thinking vs. abundance frameworks

13:15 – Community as a leadership engine

24:40 – Burnout, boundaries, and the myth of the hero

33:02 – Redefining what it means to lead—starting today

Join the conversation:

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💬 Share your stories and questions in the comments—we read them all

❤️ Like if you’re ready for leadership that centers care

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📬 For deeper dives, exclusive posts, and behind-the-scenes:⁠andwefeelfine.substack.com

In This Episode

Katie and Beth explore how AI, genomics, and healthcare are colliding—and what it means for the future of prediction, ethics, and our most personal data. They also delve into personal aspects of work-life rhythms and reimagine what it means to live in communities built for connection, not isolation.

Why You’ll Want to Watch

• How predictive analytics can go dangerously wrong without quality input
• Why ownership and consent matter in genetic research and personal data
• How built environments shape our sense of belonging
• What ancient innovations can teach us about designing for dignity
• And: Why your vacation might need a vacation

Meet Your Hosts

• Beth Rudden – CEO and Founder of Bast AI, former IBM Distinguished Engineer, and author of AI for the Rest of Us. Beth builds tools that make AI explainable, ethical, and human-centered, spanning healthcare, education, and workforce transformation.
• Katie Smith – CEO and Co-Founder of Humma.AI, and author of Zoe Bios: The Epigenetics of Terrorism. Katie blends two decades of leadership in tech commerce and social impact, building privacy-first systems rooted in equity, systems thinking, and human experience.

Top Takeaways

• AI in healthcare is powerful—but it’s only as good as the data it’s built on
• Predictive tools need consent, context, and cultural competence
• Genetic data must be owned, not extracted
• Community design impacts public health and connection
• Offline spaces are still the future of meaningful interaction

Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Vacation Reflections

05:11 – The Intersection of AI and Healthcare

12:16 – Predictive Data and Bias

19:02 – Ethics in AI and Genetic Research

24:44 – Rethinking Scientific Breakthroughs

28:16 – Lessons from Ancient Infrastructure

30:37 – Longevity vs. Quality of Life

31:46 – The Role of Government in Research

34:30 – Consent and Ownership in Genomic Data

36:35 – How AI Affects Time Management

39:00 – Libertarianism and Public Good

40:00 – Transparency in Tax Systems

42:16 – Recycling and Community Ethics

43:37 – Cultural Shifts in Behavior

44:11 – Designing for Connection

47:41 – Co-Living, Shared Spaces, and Mental Health

51:27 – Healing Through Community

53:06 – Offline Belonging in a Digital World

56:30 – Outro