Dan and Lewis are joined by Ed Husic — Australia's first Muslim frontbencher and cabinet minister, former Minister for Industry and Science, and a Western Sydney MP who clearly hasn't lost the habit of speaking his mind now that he's on the backbench.

Ed talks gas (we have heaps, we're giving it away, here's why that's insane), the Iran strikes (he was surprised Labor endorsed the action as quickly as it did), Islamophobia and the Royal Commission that didn't quite go far enough, and why Pauline Hanson voters flying on Gina Reinhardt's private jet might want to reconsider who's really kicking the system.

Plus: Ed gets kicked out of Parliament for telling Tim Wilson to sing a song, explains why he's an "MP who's Muslim" rather than a "Muslim MP," and takes Lewis's increasingly pointed questions with admirable good humour.

Also in this episode: SportsBet Junior teaches primary school kids to gamble their lunch money, and Dan previews his upcoming appearance at the Business of Comedy conference in Melbourne.

This episode was recorded on the land of the Gadigal and Gundungurra peoples.

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Recorded live at Climate Action Week Sydney, this episode of A Rational Fear dives deep into the rise of the far right, fossil-fuel-funded disinformation, and what it all means for Australia’s climate future and democracy.

Host Dan Ilic is joined on stage by:

• Malcolm Turnbull – former Prime Minister, now “concerned private citizen”
• Ed Coper – communications strategist and author of Angertainment
• Kate Hook – farmer, regional community leader, and two-time community independent candidate (Climate 200 co-convener)

Across this wide-ranging conversation, they unpack:

• Why the far right’s culture war is such a serious threat to climate action
• How “anger-tainment” media ecosystems (hello Sky News) and social platforms reward disinformation
• The inside story on fossil-fuel-backed campaigns, from Clive Palmer to astroturf outfits like “Australians for Prosperity”
• The existential crisis inside the Liberal Party and the risks of preferencing One Nation
• How regional communities are actually embracing renewables when they control the process and share the benefits
• The rise of community independents and why ordinary people, not party machines, are now driving political change

It’s funny, bleak, hopeful, and occasionally unhinged—classic Rational Fear.

• Climate politics & the far right
• Turnbull on why opposition to climate action has become “religion” rather than economics
• How internal Liberal/National dynamics warped energy policy around coal and renewables
• “Angertainment” & the media ecosystem
• Ed Coper explains how social media rewards outrage and emotional extremes
• How a small 7–10% anti-climate minority ends up feeling like 50% of the country
• The dangers of amplifying fringe narratives until they look mainstream
• Disinformation playbook & fossil fuel money
• Coordinated disinformation in the 2025 federal election, including:
• ~$80m in fossil-fuel-aligned spending
• Front groups like Australians for Prosperity attacking pro-climate independents
• Intimidatory tactics, rotating party shirts, and creepy “Don’t get hooked” billboards
• The global network of think tanks and astroturf groups exporting the same anti-climate tactics to Australia
• Liberal Party’s existential crisis
• Why Turnbull thinks there are “virtually no moderates” left federally
• How chasing One Nation on immigration and culture wars strengthens One Nation, not the Libs
• The potential fallout if the Liberals preference One Nation in seats like Farrer
• Community independents & regional hope
• Kate Hook’s experience campaigning in Calare and working in Hay and other regional communities
• How structured community engagement turns hostility toward renewables into enthusiasm when locals control the benefits
• The independent “ecosystem”: thousands of volunteers, trusted local messengers, and evidence-based policymaking
• The big question: how do we eventually get these independents from the crossbench into government and cabinet?
• How to fight disinformation
• Turnbull on why “ignore it and don’t give it oxygen” no longer works
• The “whack-a-mole” and inoculation approach: pre-bunking lies and relentlessly correcting them
• The importance of better stories, not just better facts
• Power, agency & what listeners can do
• Why grievance parties like One Nation don’t have real solutions—only easy pills for complex problems
• Community organizing, local campaigns, and supporting independents as the real counterweight to fossil fuel money
• “There’s no cavalry coming over the hill” – why we are the ones we’ve been waiting for

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What a great episode to end the year on. It's magic when the guests are good old friends with time under their belts, joy in their hearts and stupidity in their mouths.

Kirsten Drysdale's new YouTube show is crushing it, she reviews creators on the internet — The Internet Reviewed

Sami Shah you can find weekly on Patreon making podcasts and thoughtful posts — News Weakly

This week we cover a deeply important threat to democracy as we know it; The US State Department calling the Calibri font woke, we cash in on politician entitlements, and we try to decipher who 36 Months are and what they really want. Cam Wilson at Crikey.com.au has done some great work over the last year on the teenage social media ban — and this 36 Months story is developing fast. It's worth a sub to Cam and Crikey to follow it as it unfolds.

There's also and end of year quiz, and for some reason we talk about Jimmy Fallon and tech bros.

There's a lot going on — but it's a fun 45minutes hanging with funny friends.

Couldn't think of a better way to spend a road trip.

Happy Christmas to you all — we'll be back after Australia Day with some more A Rational Fear episodes, and perhaps the odd secret gig. To find out more sign up to our Patreon!

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🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.

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